Zippers Thunder Max ECM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 16
From: Roseville, CA
IMO insignificant since everyone is already riding their bike to redline anyway....
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
I have to say my experience with the TM is way less than positive.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 16
From: Roseville, CA
I have to say my experience with the TM is way less than positive.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Have you put the stock ECU in it to see how the bike runs?
Have you replaced the oxygen sensors and checked the wiring for any cracks?
If a mechanic can't diagnose a T-Maxx with code reader (can the ECU be read that way?), did you try exchanging the T-Maxx with a replacement unit?
It seems there are less expensive avenues to find the culprit?
Are you running '09 Power Duals with the O2 sensors near the engine since there is no compatible T-Maxx (last I checked) for '10-'11 Touring Bikes with stock O2 sensor placement?
Are you running the correct T-Maxx model?
Also, despite their comment, you are running power duals and hi-outputs with stock heads? How come?
Have you tried the stock slip-ons just to see what happens?
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 6
From: Livingston, Texas
I have to say my experience with the TM is way less than positive.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
And i'm supprised you did't run a data collect and mail it to them.
Sounds like some user error too.
And you realize you need to ride the bike threw several tanks of fuel for it to tune any at all.
Last edited by cardboard; Dec 26, 2011 at 08:18 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 795
Likes: 1
From: Richmond, VA
Sounds like you got the 50state legal version. You live in Cali? My Uncle had those same problems and he threw that 50 state version in the saddle bags and bought the racing one and now hes off and running.
I have to say my experience with the TM is way less than positive.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Thanks for the input.
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp