Zippers Thunder Max ECM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 6
From: Livingston, Texas
If you had a Feulmoto jackpot stainless header pipe you would have both size bung in it.
I would wait and call Randy with Zippers Support. He can tell you which map to use.
The most important thing in the map is the timing.
I would wait and call Randy with Zippers Support. He can tell you which map to use.
The most important thing in the map is the timing.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 421
From: Northern, Ohio (Yuck!)
Thanks for the input.
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
I not saying you have bad pipes, but I will state they are most certainly not the best flowing pipes on earth.... TM is the ECM of choice for many blown bikes with the proper setup and installation they handle that very well...
If I were you, I would be asking Fuel Moto or Frank Drago for help. It will most likely turn out to be something fairly simple...
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Southern Ct
I have to say my experience with the TM is way less than positive.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
Here's the spec's:
2010 FLHTCU - Ultra Classic Electra Glide
96 CI
S&S 510 gear cams
V&H Power Duals Header with Hi-Output slip-ons using the V&H baffle for the Hi-Outputs
Hi-Flow K&N Air Intake
Positives:
Bike runs great from about 3200 RPM to redline
Virtually no popping on decel
Throttle response from initial roll-on is significantly better
Cons:
Starts are not clean; lots of sputter, pops, and low-level backfire
Until bike gets to operating temp, literally raw fuel drips from left-rear pipe, raw and very strong unburned fuel fumes
Bike occasionally backfires with rapid initial throttle application
Idle is always rough
Engine performance dramatically gets worse with hot weather (hotter ambient temp's)
Gas mileage is horrible - 27 mpg at best
I have checked bike out for every possible problem, especially leaks, and paid nearly $1000 in professional mechanics to check also.
I have found customer service to be frankly troublesome. They insist that it is the bike's problem and not their equipment. And or they blame V&H for their pipe design. Too free flowing was the comment. And apparently not so universal as far as the TM's ability to auto-tune to different engine configurations--especially any changes in cams.
I would not recommend the pricely invested, $1000+, vs. the dyno expense/time.
Just my two cents worth. Especially reference using a TM with any cam that is not listed in their base MAPs.
What map? Any choice must be close to intake opening (degrees before top dead center) your cam is 20*.
Also your cam choice dropped your compression ratio (torque loss) at 38* ABDC stock is 30*. It might have been better if you went to a BB 103" the CCP would be closer to stock.
A SE 255 or Andrews 21H would give better all around every day riding performance in your 96"-er.
Al
mine got here a few days ago, now im just waiting for the air cleaner and full system to get here so i can put it all together. ive always felt a replacement ecu is a much more efficient way to measure than a piggy back system
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 69
From: Near Myrtle Beach, SC
Thanks for the input.
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 16
From: Roseville, CA
Thanks for the input.
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
I have had the TM on now about 9 months-about 2,000 miles.
Had the O2 sensors bungs welded exactly as called out for in the instructions and the videos.
Not so proud to say I haven't screwed something up along the way, but am a pretty decent mech and also computer guy, so let's say I am confident that I've got it as it is suppose to be.
My theory is this: 1. There are no MAPs for the S&S 510 cams, so timing is going to an issue somewhere down the line. 2. Exhaust has everything to do with the thermodynamics of the VE (volume efficiency), heat sink, pulse, dynamic pressure; that at low RPMs the closed-looped management of the TM EFI cannot deal with essential open-loop nature of V&H pipes I have installed.
I guess my bitching really comes down to this: the TM works best with the MAPs/configurations that Zippers has established and anything not listed is a crap-shoot on if it will work or not. I just have gotten myself into paradox of EFI selection vs. cams & exhaust. My bad for sure, but my recommendation is that it is not "all good" with the TM and buyer beware that it is not the end-all-do-all Zippers sales would have you believe.
Yep, the obvious next step is to put the HD EFI back on. However, that means I also have to change the header pipes, as I welded over the narrowband O2 ports when I welded in the new bungs for the wideband O2 sensors that came with and were required by TM for the installation. So yeah it sucks to be me! :>)!
I was just hoping someone else here had had the same or similar issues and could give me some ideas on getting it to work--better.
Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions!
jhp
Why did you weld when you could have bought the '09 Power Duals from V&H ??
Cruiser
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 133
Likes: 10
From: Houston, Tx
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
From: Southern Ct
If you know what it is or isn't why are you looking for more answers?
"It's not the cam, I had the same cam in my I/E/T 88ci Deuce. If it can't adjust for your cam, it's not adjusting."
Put it on the shelf
Good luck to you.
Al
"It's not the cam, I had the same cam in my I/E/T 88ci Deuce. If it can't adjust for your cam, it's not adjusting."
Put it on the shelf
Good luck to you.
Al