1993 FLHTC Clutch Problems
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6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 14
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From: Camarillo, CA
1993 FLHTC Clutch Problems
Just picked up this bike, 33k miles. I knew the owner, the bike hasn't been abused. Decided to change all the fluids primary, oil, tranny, fork, brake, etc.
HD now has uses the same fluid for both the primary and tranny. Made sure I filled everything to the correct level.
Went for a short drive, everything was fine. Next day the bike moved forward when I hit the starter.
The clutch is not disengaging the rear wheel from the engine. So I adjusted the clutch and cable to the proper specs per the manual, 1/2 turn from zero play. Still no luck. Put the bike on the jack, just for kicks I adjusted it so there is maximum movement (no play) on the clutch still no luck.
All I did was change the fluid, WTF?
When the clutch level is pulled I can see the clutch assembly moving outwards, maybe 1/4 inch.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks!
HD now has uses the same fluid for both the primary and tranny. Made sure I filled everything to the correct level.
Went for a short drive, everything was fine. Next day the bike moved forward when I hit the starter.
The clutch is not disengaging the rear wheel from the engine. So I adjusted the clutch and cable to the proper specs per the manual, 1/2 turn from zero play. Still no luck. Put the bike on the jack, just for kicks I adjusted it so there is maximum movement (no play) on the clutch still no luck.
All I did was change the fluid, WTF?
When the clutch level is pulled I can see the clutch assembly moving outwards, maybe 1/4 inch.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,328
Likes: 15
From: Pacific Northwest
Dump that crap out of your primary and refill it with ATF and your troubles will disappear.
Remember, your bike was made in 1993 - not 2012. The fluids used back then are different. Plus very few current dealer service techs or parts guys have even heard of an Evo, much less worked on one.
Remember, your bike was made in 1993 - not 2012. The fluids used back then are different. Plus very few current dealer service techs or parts guys have even heard of an Evo, much less worked on one.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
don't use ATF.
It is not the magic fluid.
I would use regular old primary lube, if the dealer isn't carrying it'll be at any indy shop. ( that's what I've used in an 88 and 95, both with over 80000 miles)
It's is not unusual to get a slight jerk on start up as the plates and discs work free from each other, it'll cease right away
loosen cable adjuster, readjust the clutch 1/2 to 3/4 turn out from lightly grounded, then adjust cable play
the same clutch has been used since 1990 to current, only slight variations since the wet clutch was first used and remarkably similar to clutches back to the 30's
get a list of fluids used by the previous owner ( it may be possible to change to the new primary +, but you may have to replace the clutch discs as they are impregnated with the old fluid )
BTW welcome to the Forums.
Mike
It is not the magic fluid.
I would use regular old primary lube, if the dealer isn't carrying it'll be at any indy shop. ( that's what I've used in an 88 and 95, both with over 80000 miles)
It's is not unusual to get a slight jerk on start up as the plates and discs work free from each other, it'll cease right away
loosen cable adjuster, readjust the clutch 1/2 to 3/4 turn out from lightly grounded, then adjust cable play
the same clutch has been used since 1990 to current, only slight variations since the wet clutch was first used and remarkably similar to clutches back to the 30's
get a list of fluids used by the previous owner ( it may be possible to change to the new primary +, but you may have to replace the clutch discs as they are impregnated with the old fluid )
BTW welcome to the Forums.
Mike
Last edited by mkguitar; Jan 9, 2012 at 12:29 PM.
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Camarillo, CA
I think I installed primary+ fluid, thats what the dealer recommended.
The orginal owner is deceased, so no luck finding out what he used.
What is an indy shop? How do I find one?
If I go back to the original primary lube will my clutch discs need to be replaced? If so, is it difficult?
The manual mentions something about a special clutch compression tool thats required, otherwise you risk everything flying apart you getting hurt. Do I really need it? Can't you just slowly loosen the clutch pressure plate/disc and remove the whole assembly?
I've worked on cars my whole life, including clutches so I'm mechanically inclined.
Thanks again for all the help.
The orginal owner is deceased, so no luck finding out what he used.
What is an indy shop? How do I find one?
If I go back to the original primary lube will my clutch discs need to be replaced? If so, is it difficult?
The manual mentions something about a special clutch compression tool thats required, otherwise you risk everything flying apart you getting hurt. Do I really need it? Can't you just slowly loosen the clutch pressure plate/disc and remove the whole assembly?
I've worked on cars my whole life, including clutches so I'm mechanically inclined.
Thanks again for all the help.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
indy= Independent repair shop
lots of them around. There's gotta be good in your area ( and bad, stay away from "the Shop" in ventura.
if the primary + fluid is drained, give it overnight or so for all the fluid to drain, working the clutch now and again.
---how much fluid did you put in...generally the primary case is filled to covering the bottom edge of the clutch basket, with the bike on side-stand ( jiffy stand).
you shouldn't have to do anything inside the clutch--- down the road if your ever need to, you can make a tool, I use part of my steering wheel hub puller with a couple of changed out bolts and a piece of angle iron.
Sorry about your Pal- if the bike was sitting a long time the clutch may be just a little "sticky".
hope you have the H-D factory book and not a clymer/haynes POS-- and don't be bummed out by this learning process, that '93 is going to be an awesome ride for you
lots of them around. There's gotta be good in your area ( and bad, stay away from "the Shop" in ventura.
if the primary + fluid is drained, give it overnight or so for all the fluid to drain, working the clutch now and again.
---how much fluid did you put in...generally the primary case is filled to covering the bottom edge of the clutch basket, with the bike on side-stand ( jiffy stand).
you shouldn't have to do anything inside the clutch--- down the road if your ever need to, you can make a tool, I use part of my steering wheel hub puller with a couple of changed out bolts and a piece of angle iron.
Sorry about your Pal- if the bike was sitting a long time the clutch may be just a little "sticky".
hope you have the H-D factory book and not a clymer/haynes POS-- and don't be bummed out by this learning process, that '93 is going to be an awesome ride for you
Last edited by mkguitar; Jan 9, 2012 at 02:17 PM.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
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From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
here's a cut and paste from another thread I wrote explaining the H-D clutch, I'm sure you already understand this but...
the clutch is separated from the tranny and very easy to understand- a bunch of discs are all stacked together, some toothed on the outside edge, some toothed on the inside edge.
they alternate in the stack
the discs toothed on the outside mate with teeth on the inside of the clutch basket.
the disc with the teeth on the inside mate with teeth on a shaft that goes to the transmission
so when the motor turns the primary chain, the chain turns the clutch basket, which turns every other disc
the friction between the every other disc driven by the motor, and the every other, other disc attached to the tranny transfers motion.
the discs have friction between them because of a spring pushing them altogether.
when the clutch lever is pulled, the spring stops pushing all the discs together and they spread out, no longer transferring motion
when we adjust the clutch we are adjusting how much of the spring pressure is relieved, and to an extent if mis-adjusted we can reduce the amount of spring tension when the clutch lever is not pulled- which may result in a slipping clutch.
how much friction is transferred by the discs depends on the spring or other tension*, disc surface material, lube ( or not for a dry clutch) and temperature, esp. with a dry clutch
* not only springs are used, there are also devices which use centrifugal force on weighted arms to apply more force as the rpms rise.
the clutch is separated from the tranny and very easy to understand- a bunch of discs are all stacked together, some toothed on the outside edge, some toothed on the inside edge.
they alternate in the stack
the discs toothed on the outside mate with teeth on the inside of the clutch basket.
the disc with the teeth on the inside mate with teeth on a shaft that goes to the transmission
so when the motor turns the primary chain, the chain turns the clutch basket, which turns every other disc
the friction between the every other disc driven by the motor, and the every other, other disc attached to the tranny transfers motion.
the discs have friction between them because of a spring pushing them altogether.
when the clutch lever is pulled, the spring stops pushing all the discs together and they spread out, no longer transferring motion
when we adjust the clutch we are adjusting how much of the spring pressure is relieved, and to an extent if mis-adjusted we can reduce the amount of spring tension when the clutch lever is not pulled- which may result in a slipping clutch.
how much friction is transferred by the discs depends on the spring or other tension*, disc surface material, lube ( or not for a dry clutch) and temperature, esp. with a dry clutch
* not only springs are used, there are also devices which use centrifugal force on weighted arms to apply more force as the rpms rise.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,328
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From: Pacific Northwest
Been using ATF for too many years (and miles) to count. Evolution to Twin Cam (including my drag bike) all work great with zero issues - ever. Plus it's available anywhere/anytime. I have no brand loyalty and I don't mix brands.
It's not any kind of magic elixir (neither is the spendy HD product) - it just works.
Here's a tip: all wet clutches drag if you cold start the bike 'in gear' with the clutch lever pulled in. The oil bath tends to make the clutch plates stick together. Do your cold starts in neutral.
When you're warming your scoot, pull the lever in and lightly blip the throttle a couple of times to break the plates loose before you snick it into gear.
It's not any kind of magic elixir (neither is the spendy HD product) - it just works.
Here's a tip: all wet clutches drag if you cold start the bike 'in gear' with the clutch lever pulled in. The oil bath tends to make the clutch plates stick together. Do your cold starts in neutral.
When you're warming your scoot, pull the lever in and lightly blip the throttle a couple of times to break the plates loose before you snick it into gear.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
The fix is to remove the clutch pack and replace the spring plate with three additional clutch disks. The three extra disks have about the same thickness as the spring plate had. As for fluid, ATF is okay, but almost anything can be used successfully. I used $1/qt. (at the time) generic 10w40 fossil engine oil from Walmart, and put >100k miles on the bike with only the spring plate causing problems. They were problematic in general for those years it was installed, so fluid likely didn't cause the rivets to fall out.
I can't say this is the cause of the OP's problem, but it is something to look at. If it is, make sure you remove any rivets from the bottom of the primary while the clutch basket is out.
Last edited by iclick; Jan 9, 2012 at 02:45 PM.