It must be the gas in the DC area I also only get around 33mpg. Of course the average speed around here is 80!

 

That has nothing to do with the brand or type of tuner, but the tune it has installed. You can make a bike get mileage equal to stock with any tuner if set up to achieve this result.

The PC's we use in Harley's are never designed to use O2 sensors, except for the Auto-Tune option which replaces stock narrow-band sensors with widebands.

There actually is feedback with an open-loop system like you have with the PCV attached, but not with O2 sensors. It uses MAP, intake-temp, and ET sensors to provide feedback, and given a proper tune it will equal any bike in mileage, those with or without O2 sensors. I tune my bike with a PV and get 45-49mpg on highway (55-60 mph) running E10 gas in open-loop like the OP. At interstate speeds of around 70mph mileage dips to the lower-to-mid 40's (no headwind) and the worst I've gotten is 40mph at 70mph with a 20mph headwind. I can monitor both gas mileage (instant and average) and Lambda values while riding and the ECM keeps AFR (Lambda) values within about 2% of the parameters set in the AFR table with no O2-sensor feedback. I have widebands installed that monitor AFR's and are used to tune the bike, but they provide no feedback to the ECM. The sensors on all modern Harleys (MAP, intake-air temp, ET, etc.) work well together to keep AFR's in line, with or without O2 sensors. I had a PCV and later a PCV with Auto-Tune (closed-loop) before the PV and mileage has not changed between these tuning devices.

No, no, no! Please! The IED's you suggest force the ECM to run an AFR richer than stock in the cruise range, but are only good for about 14.2:1 to run reliably without throwing codes. The OP is running >14.2 with his existing setup using FM's "economy" PCV map. What may happen is that with the OP's penchant for a lively throttle wrist he may be getting into the richer areas of the PCV map designed to maximize performance. If he reverts to the stock map and IED's he may get slightly better mileage at higher throttle positions (roll-on, etc.), but not when cruising with a more lethargic throttle attitude. Doing this defeats the purpose of a tuner by rolling performance back to stock levels, as IED's do not improve performance outside the closed-loop area (e.g., WOT). If he wants to accomplish that he can do it by also leaning the higher throttle areas of the map, but I wouldn't recommend that. One idea behind any tuner is to maximize performance, and IMO those areas shouldn't be changed.

Knowing Fuel Moto's economy settings as I do the OP has his AFR's running about as lean as he can, and that is all he can do to improve mileage other than change his riding style. I have run mine leaner, but you must be careful and keep your senses sharp. Leaner AFR's mean increased heat and more tendency to detonate, and you can sense both as you ride. Contrary to common belief running stock AFR's is not a recipe for a fried motor, as I've done it for five years with no heat problems or detonation, given proper spark timing.

 

iclick, I was thinking about Auto-Tune are you suggesting to save my $ as it will not help with MPG?

Mike

 

Interesting points and I readily agree that the "tune" is the variable

But "blindfolded", the ecm knows what is going into the motor ( with
data translated or altered by the power commander), but not the result of combustion ( and this is why I stayed on the evo bagger so long as the various newer models came out).

Agree completely that the xieds won't do anything at WOT.
But at part-throttle cruising, I have had great results.
My motor pinged while completely stock under certain repeatable conditions (2800~3200 rpm up 6% grade). the xieds solved that I was able to open the intake and exhaust.


The Guys I know and see using PC's have more problems and drivability/tuning issues...
I think a huge part of it is the lack of o2 input.
Others posit that the interface causes unwanted resistance in the various sensor circuits. ( dealer trying to sell me a S/E tuner)

Many riders do not have iclick's tuning ability/knowledge and time, and the results are on the street ( and forums)


mike

 

First you need to see what your bike is capable of for MPG as it is. Fill up your bike.....Pick a nice 2 lane blacktop, and set your cruise control for 55 mph. Go a couple hundred miles. Fill up. log the miles and gas used. Ride home... fill up and log miles and gas..... do the math. STAY THE HELL OFF OF THE THROTTLE..... NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BRAIN TELLS YOU !!!!

If your mileage is still crappy, then try throwing money at it.

If it improves a lot.........


It's that wrist of yours..... there is no cure for that other than the cruise control, and riding like an old guy.

 

This is likely the primary cause of your poor mileage, but you should still be getting better than you are. AFR's in the cruise range of your PCV map should be about as high (lean) as they should go, and going higher may help but going too far can cause detonation and/or heat issues. You can tune this way by ear and feel, but this isn't very scientific and there are ways to be fooled, like when the spark-retard function of the ECM is active.

Please resist notions of pulling the PCV out of the mix, as it is not your problem, and buying another tuner or IED's is not a good solution IMO. Even with the leaner cruise-range values your WOT settings are designed to maximize performance, and I think they should not be altered.

Like Shooter suggested, try running the backroads for a week or two and keep speeds below 60mph while controlling your hyperactive wrist. Let us know your mileage under these conditions, and try to stay away from stop-and-go traffic during that period. You should be in the low-40's as a minimum, even with E10 gas. If not we'll go from there and try to figure out why mileage isn't up to expectations.

 

OK, old man riding for a couple of weeks is what it is.

Thanks all.

Mike

 

I think AT is a great option but most people really don't need it, and I don't think it'll help your gas mileage significantly since FM's map should already be very close to optimal. The virtue of AT is that you can specify the AFR you want to run at 250 points in the operating range, as fooling with the PCV map without AT can be a hit-and-miss proposition since you don't know exactly what AFR you are running with any given change. For most, the FM map is an excellent compromise for performance, cooling, and mileage--but those of us who like to tweak the AT is just what the doctor ordered.

You could look at your PCV map and lean the values above about 40% throttle position. Zero means an unaltered ECM value, so if you have a "10" in one cell it means it will be running 10% more fuel in that location. OTOH, like I said, altering fuel-adjustment values above the cruise range is a bad idea IMO and I wouldn't go there even if mileage improves a bit.

I would like to see how much your riding habits affect mileage, like following Shooter's suggestion of riding the backroads for a while, preferably for a long ride with little or no stop-and-go traffic or interstates. It should be telling, and I'll bet you'll be into the 40's doing that. If not I'll eat crow and we'll put our thinking caps on again.

 

My '03 FXSTI gets about 40 when I ride around the island at normal cruising speed (for Oahu, thats 35-65 mph) unfortunately I ride my ride to work everyday and it is a short trip with a lot of stop lights. Thats kills me mpg to about 30. I use 92 at the base gas station. Keep your wrist out of the throttle, and avoid a lot of stop lights. Thats about all I can offer.

 

I think FM sets their maps to the rich side for liability purposes. iclick is my idol.