Another Cam Tensioner Question
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 637
Likes: 25
From: Ketchikan Alaska
Another Cam Tensioner Question
Hello,
I know this has been asked I have been reading up on it during my travels the last two weeks.
My bike is a 99 FLHTCUI with 53k on the clock. She has been making a whining noise during idle and under throttle for the last 1k. It has been getting steadily worse and I am thinking that it is most likely the cam tens and or bearings.
Figured at my mileage I need to address it sooner than later. My dealer wants $1100 for the Screaming eagle kit with labor. I asked about doing a cam at the same time and they refuse to do it do to I have an aftermarket tuner (Cobra) on my bike. They will on do cams with their tuner.
The independent around the corner has never done one nor wants to. He quoted me $1300 for the SS 510 gear drive kit installed. He wants 750 for the cam kit and 550 in labor. He says it takes about 5 hours since he isn't going to do new push rods.
Now the question I have is 1300 makes sense since it is 200 dollars more and I get the new cams and shouldn't have to worry about the cams again for some time. The question is the cams any good and or is the labor quote high?
I am planning on dropping the bike off on the 16th when I get back from Egypt.
Thanks
I know this has been asked I have been reading up on it during my travels the last two weeks.
My bike is a 99 FLHTCUI with 53k on the clock. She has been making a whining noise during idle and under throttle for the last 1k. It has been getting steadily worse and I am thinking that it is most likely the cam tens and or bearings.
Figured at my mileage I need to address it sooner than later. My dealer wants $1100 for the Screaming eagle kit with labor. I asked about doing a cam at the same time and they refuse to do it do to I have an aftermarket tuner (Cobra) on my bike. They will on do cams with their tuner.
The independent around the corner has never done one nor wants to. He quoted me $1300 for the SS 510 gear drive kit installed. He wants 750 for the cam kit and 550 in labor. He says it takes about 5 hours since he isn't going to do new push rods.
Now the question I have is 1300 makes sense since it is 200 dollars more and I get the new cams and shouldn't have to worry about the cams again for some time. The question is the cams any good and or is the labor quote high?
I am planning on dropping the bike off on the 16th when I get back from Egypt.
Thanks
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28,552
Likes: 3,954
From: Vermont
SS 510's were used quite a bit in the 88's and 95's. The cams most folks seemed to go with were either the Andrews 26g, SS 510 or the SE 204. They are all relatively close performance-wise.
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 637
Likes: 25
From: Ketchikan Alaska
Hello
I was thinking of doing the SE204 but since my dealer is unwilling unless I pay for their tuner and a synopsis I had to rule it out. They would use mine but wouldn't warranty the work. Funny since they sell the tuner on the website but don't support it.
I have. Read up on the difference and opinions of gear drive vs hydraulic. Seems to be preety evenly split. I would even do it myself if I was going to be home for more than a week.
Thanks for the opinion.
I was thinking of doing the SE204 but since my dealer is unwilling unless I pay for their tuner and a synopsis I had to rule it out. They would use mine but wouldn't warranty the work. Funny since they sell the tuner on the website but don't support it.
I have. Read up on the difference and opinions of gear drive vs hydraulic. Seems to be preety evenly split. I would even do it myself if I was going to be home for more than a week.
Thanks for the opinion.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 637
Likes: 25
From: Ketchikan Alaska
Well figure a little update...
I managed to get my bike back for a total of 3 hours. It got alot more done to it then originally planned but I dont want her to break down on a long ride.
They installed the cams, fueling gear cam plate upgrade with oil pump and some other little things that I asked to be taken care of. Also the hit to my wallet was more than I thought...have to love extras.
Now here is my problem.
I got the bike back and rode it back to the house. Ran great, idle was low like usual at about 750 to 800 (I really need to reset that). Decided to let her cool down and install the exhaust I got from a fellow forum member here.
After that she started great and ran with no problems. Then I decided to take her out. I got 5 blocks from my house and the all of the sudden no power and she stalled out. If I attempt to restart her she almost starts but is very rough. The tac is bouncing all over and the occanisonal back fire.
So the shop came and got me and charged the battery. Still wouldnt start. We checked the battery and it was almost dead again so they put a new battery in under warranty. She started like nothing had happened. Then when I attempted to give a little throttle she died instantly. Same story here again...
Could this be the tuner crapping out? You get a strong smell of fuel and alot of backfiring. I have the Cobra FI2000 tuner that is supposed to remap as you ride.
I managed to get my bike back for a total of 3 hours. It got alot more done to it then originally planned but I dont want her to break down on a long ride.
They installed the cams, fueling gear cam plate upgrade with oil pump and some other little things that I asked to be taken care of. Also the hit to my wallet was more than I thought...have to love extras.
Now here is my problem.
I got the bike back and rode it back to the house. Ran great, idle was low like usual at about 750 to 800 (I really need to reset that). Decided to let her cool down and install the exhaust I got from a fellow forum member here.
After that she started great and ran with no problems. Then I decided to take her out. I got 5 blocks from my house and the all of the sudden no power and she stalled out. If I attempt to restart her she almost starts but is very rough. The tac is bouncing all over and the occanisonal back fire.
So the shop came and got me and charged the battery. Still wouldnt start. We checked the battery and it was almost dead again so they put a new battery in under warranty. She started like nothing had happened. Then when I attempted to give a little throttle she died instantly. Same story here again...
Could this be the tuner crapping out? You get a strong smell of fuel and alot of backfiring. I have the Cobra FI2000 tuner that is supposed to remap as you ride.
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 637
Likes: 25
From: Ketchikan Alaska
Well I just got the phone call from Cobra USA on their tuner.
Apperantly this is a known issue with certain cams. This is how it was explained to me by the technician.
The ECM is getting the timing information and is enriching the fuel mixture. That signal is then sent to the Cobra and the it reads it as needs more fuel and it enriches the mixture further. This causes it to get confused and flood the bike.
They have seen this on other bikes that have Andrews, Woods and SS cams installed. So they are getting me a modified version ready. They have to waterproof it over night and they will send it out first thing tomorrow. Since it is in Vegas I should have it on thrusday or even Wednesday.
I will let you all know. I am happy with the service to say the least. Cant complain about a call back within 24 hours and a new unit on the way.
Apperantly this is a known issue with certain cams. This is how it was explained to me by the technician.
The ECM is getting the timing information and is enriching the fuel mixture. That signal is then sent to the Cobra and the it reads it as needs more fuel and it enriches the mixture further. This causes it to get confused and flood the bike.
They have seen this on other bikes that have Andrews, Woods and SS cams installed. So they are getting me a modified version ready. They have to waterproof it over night and they will send it out first thing tomorrow. Since it is in Vegas I should have it on thrusday or even Wednesday.
I will let you all know. I am happy with the service to say the least. Cant complain about a call back within 24 hours and a new unit on the way.
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 637
Likes: 25
From: Ketchikan Alaska
Update
Just got the tuner installed and took her out. Seems to be running like before with a little more bottom end umph.
So what the "tuner" does is basically they turn on a new map and allow the unit to run a little leaner than stock. When I asked why this wasn't on by default I got the stock answer is that most bikes don't need it.
So 30 miles now on the new tuner and cams and so far so good. Will let it cool down and then go out and do it again. Maybe take the wife to dinner and a movie so she cant complain I spend all of our money on the love affair with the bike.
Just got the tuner installed and took her out. Seems to be running like before with a little more bottom end umph.
So what the "tuner" does is basically they turn on a new map and allow the unit to run a little leaner than stock. When I asked why this wasn't on by default I got the stock answer is that most bikes don't need it.
So 30 miles now on the new tuner and cams and so far so good. Will let it cool down and then go out and do it again. Maybe take the wife to dinner and a movie so she cant complain I spend all of our money on the love affair with the bike.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 17
From: Rosamond, Cali
It sounds like you've got is squared-away. I'm curious though, what sent you in the direction of the Cobra tuner in the first place? I don't hear a lot about those, and was just wondering what convinced you to select it over the other 'auto-tuners' (e.g., Thundermax, PC, etc.)? Thanks...
Alan
Alan
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Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 637
Likes: 25
From: Ketchikan Alaska
What pushed me that way is my bike doesn't have the O2 Sensor bungs and most are rated for newer bikes. I really like the Thunder Max setup but I am looking at changing out the MM for the Delphi system.
Since I like to ride and plan on going some long distance rides this summer I wanted something that I wouldn't have to worry about altitude changes, fuel changes and etc. I have a friend with a metric bike (Vulcan 900) and he went this route and has loved it.
Now looking at the difference of the PCs and those I was almost to the point of shipping one in overnight. I would recommend this after they are on the market longer.
*Update from Cobra*
I was wrong thinking it was a different tuner they sent me. This is what scares me from this product.
The tuner has more than one map that can be used. The stock one is a richer map which 90% of the bikes need. The problem is 10% of them need a lean map from stock. This is where mine fell into. The problem is they don't enable this from default. So if you buy this tuner and use it for a year and you are one of the 10% prepare to spend another 500 or buy another tuner.
When I asked what will happen if I switch out to something else and they said it will return to the more rich map. So by logic I asked why wasn't the lean map turned on in the first place. I didn't get an answer. So I would only use this if are already doing your motor in the first place.
Since I like to ride and plan on going some long distance rides this summer I wanted something that I wouldn't have to worry about altitude changes, fuel changes and etc. I have a friend with a metric bike (Vulcan 900) and he went this route and has loved it.
Now looking at the difference of the PCs and those I was almost to the point of shipping one in overnight. I would recommend this after they are on the market longer.
*Update from Cobra*
I was wrong thinking it was a different tuner they sent me. This is what scares me from this product.
The tuner has more than one map that can be used. The stock one is a richer map which 90% of the bikes need. The problem is 10% of them need a lean map from stock. This is where mine fell into. The problem is they don't enable this from default. So if you buy this tuner and use it for a year and you are one of the 10% prepare to spend another 500 or buy another tuner.
When I asked what will happen if I switch out to something else and they said it will return to the more rich map. So by logic I asked why wasn't the lean map turned on in the first place. I didn't get an answer. So I would only use this if are already doing your motor in the first place.
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