True dat.

You can't win arguments with guys who think they know everything about everything.

 

What is the definition of a good dyno tuner? They all claim to be good....They all say they are the best....They all say they are experienced and know how to get the job done...but the last "Dyno-Tuner" I let lay a hand on my bike gave it back smokin hot with a program that only worked when the bike was smokin hot....I think they are all a bunch of Wanna-Bee gready techies that want the world to think they can do something I can't....Well I can!

 

I'm not even going to get into the argument over the competency of tuners (human), but as for tuners (hardware) I will say this. While the PCV is not the latest, greatest - it is still a fine tuner.

I have one on my bike w/the autotune. At the time I purchased it the PV was not available yet. If I were buying a tuner today it would probably be a PV but I'm not getting rid of my PCV anytime soon.

 

"None of our men (people) are "Experts". The moment one gets into the "Expert" state of mind a great number of things become impossible" - Henry Ford

 

Show me where I said a dyno tune wasn't worth the money......

Back several years ago I used the PCII and a PCIII with great success but things have changed in the last 6 or 7 years and the add on type programmers are the old way of tuning the newer bikes. A simple fact that a lot of members here seem to have a hard time accepting for some reason..........
Again, I never said they would not work, I said there are better systems available.

Lion, you stated the SEPST had to be taken to a dealer to be tuned properly. Absolutely not true. The statement you made is false but I guess it's ok for you to spread what you want the masses to believe.

If you were interested in actually reading a post with an open mind, you would see only facts were stated (do your research on the net) about a few programmers I am familar with.

I fully understand why the good performance tuners stay out of the ****'n matches.

 

I think that's a rather loose interpretation of how the PCV works. If you change the VE tables to achieve a certain spec for AFR using a flash-based tuner, or do the same thing with the PCV by changing the values in the Fuel Adjustment tables, what's the difference? If you're running 14.0 at a certain point, what difference does it make how you go about achieving it?

The PCV does interrupt the instructions from the ECM and modifies them to the tuner's spec, but if it provides the intended AFR and spark advance it is tuning the bike as it should be--or at least as the tuner interprets that to be. It is true that you have more flexibility with the tune with a flash-based tuner, at least in most areas, but does the average rider really want to make changes in the esoteric regions of the ECM's working environment? For example, do most have an obsession or need to change their "PE Disable TPS" or "Deceleration enleanment multiplier" settings? Sure, you and I like to fool around with them, but I for one am an admitted nutcase tweaker. What's your excuse?

Would you call the stock Delphi system "up-to-date"? If so, you are still using the ECM's features with a PCV installed, except in most cases the stock NB O2 sensors are disabled. These are installed at the factory to meet strict emissions requirements and do little or nothing to enhance performance, mileage, or much of anything else. Other regulatory functions of the ECM are fully functional (e.g., MAP, ET, IAT, etc.), and AFR is kept very close to the intended levels with changes in air temperatures and altitude.

I run open-loop on my bike that's tuned with the Power Vision and wideband O2 sensors, and monitor Lambda in real time. The ECM does an excellent job of keeping AFR ±1-2% on average on my bike without the stock NB O2 sensors, and this variation wouldn't be much less if they were installed, and certainly wouldn't be something anyone could feel or measure in practical terms. Thus, if the system is simple and works, who's to complain?

I ran the PCV with and without Autotune and found both to work very well. IMO the PCV is a very good option for most riders when you balance performance and cost, especially when it is purchased with a good map installed.

 

What's the definition of "better"? If you put a PV or other flash-based tuner in the hands of someone who can use its abilities to delve into the ECM's many tables and parameters, you are correct. OTOH, most riders aren't interested in carrying the tuning experience to a science or a serious hobby. They want to buy a device, the more plug-and-play the better, that makes their bike run better. The PCV will do that given a good map, so if the end-result is the priority who is to challenge that method?

 

You're joking right? The friction zone is a viable tool used by anyone that wants to be a good rider. My motor cop friends rely on the principle on a daily basis and I know of no "clutch frys" on any of their bikes. The advance courses they offer in our area stress the use of the friction zone.

This control method is taught in all the advanced riding courses that I know of including "Ride Like A Pro", a video dedicated to rider improvement created by a world class motor officer. I don't know any really good riders that don't apply this pratice.

The motor officers in this area hate the fly by wire throttles on the newer bikes because they are erratic. The tuner took care of a lot of that.

Bill

 

Guess I opened an unintended can of worms. I just posted on my impressions of what I choose to use.

I am sure there are better tuners out there, but I would guess that the PCV has more features than 90% of the people on this forum need or would even take the time to learn to use. That is the case with me and the price was much better than some of the others I looked at.

I am not a tuner, racer or hotrodder, I just wanted a reliable bike that was cooler and had a bit better performance. My impression is I got exactly that. I also like the idea of being able to take it out and be completely stock should something decide to not work as it should and leave me stranded somewhere. In fact, I left my 02 sensors in place and just unplugged in the event I want to go back to stock with a minimum or effort.

Bill