No tuning needed on 07?
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 6
From: Omaha Nebraska
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
ORIGINAL: Neggy ZRXOA 5248
this is just opinion, with no factual basis to defend my position, but there has never been a HD that wasn't better off after being tuned.
The more the EPA dictates, the crappier the bike runs from the factory. It's not all the factorys fault, but some of it is.
As for me, I found my 99% stock bike (Ness Big Sucker run as an open element is the only mod) runs 1000% better with a PCIII than it did stock.
Your mileage may vary.
this is just opinion, with no factual basis to defend my position, but there has never been a HD that wasn't better off after being tuned.
The more the EPA dictates, the crappier the bike runs from the factory. It's not all the factorys fault, but some of it is.
As for me, I found my 99% stock bike (Ness Big Sucker run as an open element is the only mod) runs 1000% better with a PCIII than it did stock.
Your mileage may vary.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,183
Likes: 837
From: KMHT KFMY
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
Geargrinder I think the big bore air cooled V Twin is going the way of the dinosaur, the MoCo has had years to get it right, they are on at least thier third EFI system, and should have had the benefit of the automotive industries learning curve, especially since Delphi (read GM) is thier EFI provider of choice as of late.
There was a reason VW & Porsche gave up on air cooled motors.. they can't meet the environmental standards.
To HD's credit, they have spent a good deal of time and money developing what I think is the future of the MoCo the VRSCA powerplant. I am really hoping they will introduce a touring model with a VRSCA based motor. I think it would give BMW, Honda and even Kawi (if they ever release the 07 ZX-14 based Concours, now set to be an 08 model released in August) a run for thier money in the sales department
And not that a watercooled engine alone is the answer. I still had to go in and shim needles and unseal idle mixture screws on my watercooled rice bike to get the A/F mixture where I like it about 14:1 in the mid range and 13:1 on the mains. The universal accessory on every EFI bike regardless of manufacturer seems to be a PCIII. But it takes a lot less effort to make a water cooled motor happy than an air cooled one IMHO.
There was a reason VW & Porsche gave up on air cooled motors.. they can't meet the environmental standards.
To HD's credit, they have spent a good deal of time and money developing what I think is the future of the MoCo the VRSCA powerplant. I am really hoping they will introduce a touring model with a VRSCA based motor. I think it would give BMW, Honda and even Kawi (if they ever release the 07 ZX-14 based Concours, now set to be an 08 model released in August) a run for thier money in the sales department
And not that a watercooled engine alone is the answer. I still had to go in and shim needles and unseal idle mixture screws on my watercooled rice bike to get the A/F mixture where I like it about 14:1 in the mid range and 13:1 on the mains. The universal accessory on every EFI bike regardless of manufacturer seems to be a PCIII. But it takes a lot less effort to make a water cooled motor happy than an air cooled one IMHO.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,537
Likes: 21
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
ORIGINAL: Neggy ZRXOA 5248
Geargrinder I think the big bore air cooled V Twin is going the way of the dinosaur, the MoCo has had years to get it right, they are on at least thier third EFI system, and should have had the benefit of the automotive industries learning curve, especially since Delphi (read GM) is thier EFI provider of choice as of late.
......
The universal accessory on every EFI bike regardless of manufacturer seems to be a PCIII. But it takes a lot less effort to make a water cooled motor happy than an air cooled one IMHO.
Geargrinder I think the big bore air cooled V Twin is going the way of the dinosaur, the MoCo has had years to get it right, they are on at least thier third EFI system, and should have had the benefit of the automotive industries learning curve, especially since Delphi (read GM) is thier EFI provider of choice as of late.
......
The universal accessory on every EFI bike regardless of manufacturer seems to be a PCIII. But it takes a lot less effort to make a water cooled motor happy than an air cooled one IMHO.
The PC is just a band aid for performance.... The best and most reliable designs out currently this moment are the SERT and Thundermax w/ Auto Tune.....
As both are utilizing o2 sensor integrators to assist in dialing in a "Desired" A/F mix, and correcting for low quality fuel, minor modifications and some minor intake or exhaust defects..... Albeit, the SERT on 07's requires a narrower or more precise tune for the sensors to "See" what they are tuning, I do believe that the next step is Wide Band o2's on HD's....
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
I just traded my RKC in for a 2007 Ultra. Had read all the bad things about the heat and lean running. Service manager, whom I trust very much, said if I put on my old SE II slip ons and the SE AC, I'd need a race turner (SERT). I was able to talk the dealer into a free SERT and SE AC. Not going to dyno it though, I think the current set up will give me plenty of power, sound better and most importantly, run better!
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Wilmywood NC
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
I talked to the local Sevice Manager and he definitely recommends the sert and a/c when you add pipes to the bike. (true duals) They also dyno tune the bike to get everything tweeked just right when they add all of the above to the 07's. Im guessingthe Sales Rep didnt know what he was yapping about......omg I resemble that remark, lol.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From:
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
I've got the Reinharts on my SG and love em. (they are loud) I would go ahead and change the A/C and some kind of tuner. It will make the bike. The Reinharts already have a bung for an O2 sensor, so I took advantage of that and went with the Terry Components TVIII. No problems. I was torn between that and the Power Commander, but since I decided to do it myself, I went with the TC TVIII. Did it all in a day. I'm not sure what your comfort level is with turning a wrench, but it's not hard.
Good luck and ride safe
------------------------------
06 FLHXi Street Glide
True Dual Reiharts
HD SE Air Cleaner
Terry Components TVIII
78 FLH
93' Stroker
5 speed w\ Kicker
01 Suzuki Hayabusa
White Knuckels
Good luck and ride safe
------------------------------
06 FLHXi Street Glide
True Dual Reiharts
HD SE Air Cleaner
Terry Components TVIII
78 FLH
93' Stroker
5 speed w\ Kicker
01 Suzuki Hayabusa
White Knuckels
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Missouri
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
I just called my dealer and asked about a stage1 upgrade and what all had to be done, he say's that he has Rush slipons with 2" baffles K&n air cleaner and Harley has a new map for just a basic stage 1 as this... I asked about going to true duels and was told I would have to Buy a Race Tuner to put true duels on because harley doesn't have a map for that set up yet. I have a PCIII on it now but he said I didn't need it if I didn't want to use it.
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Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 4
From:
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
I don't have any facts handy to back this up, but:
In 2006 the EPA issued new stricter emissions guidelines, and an even stricter set is due in 2010.
You can only go so lean in an air cooled motor before you get excessive heat and a melt down
(are we seeing the start of this in the new stock 07's).
In the auto industry to combat this the aircooleds disappeared and went to liquid cooled.
They also employed the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation valve).
In the 70's the epa was making emissions hard to meet without causing unwanted gases from the heat (forget the name of the gas I think nox). This was caused by excessive combustion temps.
Putting in the EGR helped reduce this heat and the unwanted gas.
I think HD has about hit the upper limits of Air Cooled and beable to meet the new EPA that's coming.
They brought out the V-rod, what .... about 4 years ago I believe for numerous reasons.
1. for real world testing of a liquid cooled engine.
2. for the "european" look (they claimed) to garner a new breed of rider
3. To get people (both old time and new time riders) used to the fact that a HARLEY now
has an aircooled V-TWIN.
I think they saw the writing on the walls a few years ago.
I think in 2008 or maybe 09 you will probably see an optional liguid cooled motor on the baggers.
But I guess time will tell.
JMO
ORIGINAL: Neggy ZRXOA 5248
Geargrinder I think the big bore air cooled V Twin is going the way of the dinosaur, the MoCo has had years to get it right, they are on at least thier third EFI system, and should have had the benefit of the automotive industries learning curve, especially since Delphi (read GM) is thier EFI provider of choice as of late.
There was a reason VW & Porsche gave up on air cooled motors.. they can't meet the environmental standards.
To HD's credit, they have spent a good deal of time and money developing what I think is the future of the MoCo the VRSCA powerplant. I am really hoping they will introduce a touring model with a VRSCA based motor. I think it would give BMW, Honda and even Kawi (if they ever release the 07 ZX-14 based Concours, now set to be an 08 model released in August) a run for thier money in the sales department
And not that a watercooled engine alone is the answer. I still had to go in and shim needles and unseal idle mixture screws on my watercooled rice bike to get the A/F mixture where I like it about 14:1 in the mid range and 13:1 on the mains. The universal accessory on every EFI bike regardless of manufacturer seems to be a PCIII. But it takes a lot less effort to make a water cooled motor happy than an air cooled one IMHO.
Geargrinder I think the big bore air cooled V Twin is going the way of the dinosaur, the MoCo has had years to get it right, they are on at least thier third EFI system, and should have had the benefit of the automotive industries learning curve, especially since Delphi (read GM) is thier EFI provider of choice as of late.
There was a reason VW & Porsche gave up on air cooled motors.. they can't meet the environmental standards.
To HD's credit, they have spent a good deal of time and money developing what I think is the future of the MoCo the VRSCA powerplant. I am really hoping they will introduce a touring model with a VRSCA based motor. I think it would give BMW, Honda and even Kawi (if they ever release the 07 ZX-14 based Concours, now set to be an 08 model released in August) a run for thier money in the sales department
And not that a watercooled engine alone is the answer. I still had to go in and shim needles and unseal idle mixture screws on my watercooled rice bike to get the A/F mixture where I like it about 14:1 in the mid range and 13:1 on the mains. The universal accessory on every EFI bike regardless of manufacturer seems to be a PCIII. But it takes a lot less effort to make a water cooled motor happy than an air cooled one IMHO.
Cruiser
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
From:
RE: No tuning needed on 07?
IF, they put out water cooled as optional, I am sure they will retro that to the 06/07s that are already seeing a heating issue. Couple days ago was my first peek into warmer temps and even with the temp outside at around 75... alot of heat from coming off the engine, much more than I remember my SG ever doing.
I just dont want to see a damn radiator. But if it boils down to burnt thighs or a radiator... hmmmm... buy stock is Aloe?