Noisy synthetic
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: North Shore of Minnesota
Lubrication formulation is a compromise. No one type or blend of oil is best at every type of lubrication regime. A synthetic can be formulated with additive packages to simulate and exceed what a mineral oil can do in terms of hydro lubrication modes. But you can not change the fact that its basic make up is homogenized. Its only as good as long as it stays together in other words. Synthetics long chain molecules shear and do not go back together well. When this happens they drop the additive package molecule that was bonded to it. 5K later the oil is thin, less viscous . The contaminants fall out of suspension, and it separates into its root elements once again. Mineral oil on the other hand because of its natural randomization will kind of re-bond after shearing. It is so good at this it grabs the dirt, carbon and other stuff and keeps it as well. Thats why old mineral oil is thick when you drain it. It increases in viscosity with shear cycles and contaminants. To simplify things it's kind of like OSB strand board. All the random size chips of wood in OSB give it its strength. You can crack it , bend it and it wants to stay together. its tough stuff, its not the best looking or the most refined, it takes on water, dirt and swells, but its strong. Plywood on the other hand is very smooth, refined, stable and strong till you break it once. Synthetics are great for precise controlled lubrication tasks, where you can formulate a package to achieve a specific engineered situation or event. A Harley engine is far from that, its a controlled disaster at best. It's to dumb for a smart oil. Just change your Dino oil when it's dirty, it will do everything you need.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 615
Likes: 36
From: tx
Will be interested in results,I think that is why they are so noisy,cheap lifter and push rods not held to spec,oil has nothing to do with it if they will stay pumped up,just my 2pennies
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: Mo.
Lubrication formulation is a compromise. No one type or blend of oil is best at every type of lubrication regime. A synthetic can be formulated with additive packages to simulate and exceed what a mineral oil can do in terms of hydro lubrication modes. But you can not change the fact that its basic make up is homogenized. Its only as good as long as it stays together in other words. Synthetics long chain molecules shear and do not go back together well. When this happens they drop the additive package molecule that was bonded to it. 5K later the oil is thin, less viscous . The contaminants fall out of suspension, and it separates into its root elements once again. Mineral oil on the other hand because of its natural randomization will kind of re-bond after shearing. It is so good at this it grabs the dirt, carbon and other stuff and keeps it as well. Thats why old mineral oil is thick when you drain it. It increases in viscosity with shear cycles and contaminants. To simplify things it's kind of like OSB strand board. All the random size chips of wood in OSB give it its strength. You can crack it , bend it and it wants to stay together. its tough stuff, its not the best looking or the most refined, it takes on water, dirt and swells, but its strong. Plywood on the other hand is very smooth, refined, stable and strong till you break it once. Synthetics are great for precise controlled lubrication tasks, where you can formulate a package to achieve a specific engineered situation or event. A Harley engine is far from that, its a controlled disaster at best. It's to dumb for a smart oil. Just change your Dino oil when it's dirty, it will do everything you need.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 9
From: North Carolina
Lubrication formulation is a compromise. No one type or blend of oil is best at every type of lubrication regime. A synthetic can be formulated with additive packages to simulate and exceed what a mineral oil can do in terms of hydro lubrication modes. But you can not change the fact that its basic make up is homogenized. Its only as good as long as it stays together in other words. Synthetics long chain molecules shear and do not go back together well. When this happens they drop the additive package molecule that was bonded to it. 5K later the oil is thin, less viscous . The contaminants fall out of suspension, and it separates into its root elements once again. Mineral oil on the other hand because of its natural randomization will kind of re-bond after shearing. It is so good at this it grabs the dirt, carbon and other stuff and keeps it as well. Thats why old mineral oil is thick when you drain it. It increases in viscosity with shear cycles and contaminants. To simplify things it's kind of like OSB strand board. All the random size chips of wood in OSB give it its strength. You can crack it , bend it and it wants to stay together. its tough stuff, its not the best looking or the most refined, it takes on water, dirt and swells, but its strong. Plywood on the other hand is very smooth, refined, stable and strong till you break it once. Synthetics are great for precise controlled lubrication tasks, where you can formulate a package to achieve a specific engineered situation or event. A Harley engine is far from that, its a controlled disaster at best. It's to dumb for a smart oil. Just change your Dino oil when it's dirty, it will do everything you need.
on the other hand...where has the OP gone? He stirs the pot with uneducated and childish comments and has flown the coupe.
I been called worse by better
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 285
From: Edmond Oklahoma
Yes, this is all true. Still there are many many studies that compare syn and mineral oils and they all come to about the same conclusion that additives in mineral oils break down faster than in syn oil, especially in the higher heat. The problem with that is the multi-viscosity oils loose their viscosity flexibility and eventually the oil hangs around one viscosity. I observed the test results a few years ago where the life of the additives in mineral oil was about half the life of synthetic. So mineral oils need to be changed more often than synthetic to achieve the same performance and protection.
While I agree oil should be changed when it looks dirty, looks arent always indicative to the additives breakdown. Most research conclusions are about the same in suggesting that mineral oil should to be changed between 1500 and 3000 miles while synthetic is between 3000 and 5000 miles. If you ride in higher temp climates like I do in in Oklahoma, then sooner is better.
My point isnt to suggest that synthetic should be your oil of choice, I am very satisfied with mineral oils. I only use synthetic for the high heat.
Beary
While I agree oil should be changed when it looks dirty, looks arent always indicative to the additives breakdown. Most research conclusions are about the same in suggesting that mineral oil should to be changed between 1500 and 3000 miles while synthetic is between 3000 and 5000 miles. If you ride in higher temp climates like I do in in Oklahoma, then sooner is better.
My point isnt to suggest that synthetic should be your oil of choice, I am very satisfied with mineral oils. I only use synthetic for the high heat.
Beary
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Jun 9, 2019 06:32 AM
