Bagger Wobble: Dealer Explanation...
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
Sorry, but exactly my thought.
You made major changes to the geometry, suspension and unsprung weight. tires, tread pattern, sidewall (and as above leaky front valve stem so inconsistent pressure)
so the "problems" are now "yours".
so dreaded this and that, the take away is that you now do not get the function and enjoyment of this machine as you should.
Money wasted.
That's an interesting statement, especially seeing as the bike BONE STOCK exhibited the same behavior in a more pronounced manor.
Keeping in mind all work/additions have been done by the HD dealer and the same tech:
1. Stock Issue: Wobble @ 70-75 mph. Service recommended stabilizer.
2. Added 21" front: Same wobble @ 70-75 mph. No change. Service recommends stabilizer again. Bought Bagger Brace and service installed. Wobble still there but, not as pronounced.
3. Geometry: Service and others recommend bring bike back as close to stock riding position as possible. Lowered front 1 inch to compensate for the additional height and lowered rear 1.5 inches. Still wobble, same speed but not as pronounced as bike when stock.
I was more interested in what those thought about the comment regarding the shocks as it was said to be directly related to the wobble issue and the fact that "nothing was looked at by the dealer as it was said "Didn’t get into wobbles and handling concerns because the TECH and I are in agreement that it is more than likely in the rear suspension of the bike. That is strictly due to how low those shocks are, and the fact that they are an air shock versus a coil over oil dampened style of shock. "
Although there was a slight improvement over the stock ride, to not take a deeper look at the issue past rear shocks is disappointing to say the least. As some others have described suspension stabilizers and or braces a band-aid, to this issue, I may have to agree to an extent and replace what at least one person on this site describes as the root cause which would be wearing bushings and chassis stabilizer links.
as for driveability, is this a stock bike or has something been down to the motor tuning etc as well.
The bike has a HD SE air cleaner, Slip ons and a dealer stage 1 download (everything has been done at the HD dealer. No owner mods/work): "In regards to the running condition and the bike shutting down on decel on the highway. We checked and cleaned the pertinent sensors as well as checked the download that is in the bike just to be sure everything was proper. Bike runs good and strong as always and on the highway loops we could not get it to cut out at all. "
you don't talk about speeds, the front end on a batwing bike will unload above 85ish MPH wind speed- this makes the front end loose
Speed 70-75mph. No cross or additional headwind. Smooth freeway rd, whick I am sure you are familiar with 101 to US 60 East ramp. I wouldn't push the bike that hard into a sweeper, not in that big of a hurry..
mike
You made major changes to the geometry, suspension and unsprung weight. tires, tread pattern, sidewall (and as above leaky front valve stem so inconsistent pressure)
so the "problems" are now "yours".
so dreaded this and that, the take away is that you now do not get the function and enjoyment of this machine as you should.
Money wasted.
That's an interesting statement, especially seeing as the bike BONE STOCK exhibited the same behavior in a more pronounced manor.
Keeping in mind all work/additions have been done by the HD dealer and the same tech:
1. Stock Issue: Wobble @ 70-75 mph. Service recommended stabilizer.
2. Added 21" front: Same wobble @ 70-75 mph. No change. Service recommends stabilizer again. Bought Bagger Brace and service installed. Wobble still there but, not as pronounced.
3. Geometry: Service and others recommend bring bike back as close to stock riding position as possible. Lowered front 1 inch to compensate for the additional height and lowered rear 1.5 inches. Still wobble, same speed but not as pronounced as bike when stock.
I was more interested in what those thought about the comment regarding the shocks as it was said to be directly related to the wobble issue and the fact that "nothing was looked at by the dealer as it was said "Didn’t get into wobbles and handling concerns because the TECH and I are in agreement that it is more than likely in the rear suspension of the bike. That is strictly due to how low those shocks are, and the fact that they are an air shock versus a coil over oil dampened style of shock. "
Although there was a slight improvement over the stock ride, to not take a deeper look at the issue past rear shocks is disappointing to say the least. As some others have described suspension stabilizers and or braces a band-aid, to this issue, I may have to agree to an extent and replace what at least one person on this site describes as the root cause which would be wearing bushings and chassis stabilizer links.
as for driveability, is this a stock bike or has something been down to the motor tuning etc as well.
The bike has a HD SE air cleaner, Slip ons and a dealer stage 1 download (everything has been done at the HD dealer. No owner mods/work): "In regards to the running condition and the bike shutting down on decel on the highway. We checked and cleaned the pertinent sensors as well as checked the download that is in the bike just to be sure everything was proper. Bike runs good and strong as always and on the highway loops we could not get it to cut out at all. "
you don't talk about speeds, the front end on a batwing bike will unload above 85ish MPH wind speed- this makes the front end loose
Speed 70-75mph. No cross or additional headwind. Smooth freeway rd, whick I am sure you are familiar with 101 to US 60 East ramp. I wouldn't push the bike that hard into a sweeper, not in that big of a hurry..
mike
I have read enough here to know that tire pressure, etc.. are some basic causes to the wobble and I think this thread is a bit more informative with reference to wobble than some other comments: https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...e-exposed.html
I'm surprised I haven't heard the "shoulda bought a BMW" yet.... While it's not my first bike, it is my first Harley Davidson. I won't be giving up that easy...
Last edited by LoneWolf01; Jun 21, 2013 at 04:06 AM. Reason: spelling correction
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
To an extent you may be right. The bike has 33,xxx miles on it now so I plan on putting in new motor mounts, stabilizer links and a rear swing arm bushing. I will see what happens from there...
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
So basiclly the stealer told you they are not looking at it and replaced a valve stem for you. Go find another dealer dude, one that wants your business and truly cares for its customers. Your bike is brand new, I am surprised the dealer didnt jump all over it just to get warranty work,=money in their pocket.
I read on another thread you were getting your Expat on over there. I'm doing the same here in Kurdistan. Stay safe and keep your head down bro.
Last edited by LoneWolf01; Jun 21, 2013 at 04:22 AM. Reason: add info
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Detroit, MI
I have never experienced the bagger wobble people speak of (2002 FLHT STD) but if it ever started up on my bike, I would start looking at things like swingarm bearings, steering neck bearings and wheel bearings to begin with. Just seems to me like these "brace" products are a band aid to the real issue. BTW My bike has 1" shorter shocks(Progressive 430) in the rear only due to me being vertically challenged.
Last edited by DEW2112; Jun 21, 2013 at 04:40 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
Anyone care to comment?? I am frustrated as hell with my dealer right now. My bike has been at the dealer for the past 2 months while I have been on rotation overseas.
Took it in for chrome front end and rear rim/tire install as well as the dreaded idle control issue/ shutting down after long freeway cruises while coming to a stop. Also asked them to look into the WOBBLE issue most of us experience at speed on sweepers etc..
I am currently running a 21/16 set up. Lowered w/ progressive drop ins up front 1 inch and Bitchin Baggers rear drop shocks 11.25 inch and a Bagger Brace.
After having my bike for the past 2 months to address my concerns, here is what I got back from the dealer in an email last night:
"Didnt get into wobbles and handling concerns because the TECH and I are in agreement that it is more than likely in the rear suspension of the bike. That is strictly due to how low those shocks are, and the fact that they are an air shock versus a coil over oil dampened style of shock. "
"We replaced your front valve stem and it appears to have corrected the loss of tire pressure that you were experiencing. That could be one of the issues causing the wobble, and handling condition. "
Took it in for chrome front end and rear rim/tire install as well as the dreaded idle control issue/ shutting down after long freeway cruises while coming to a stop. Also asked them to look into the WOBBLE issue most of us experience at speed on sweepers etc..
I am currently running a 21/16 set up. Lowered w/ progressive drop ins up front 1 inch and Bitchin Baggers rear drop shocks 11.25 inch and a Bagger Brace.
After having my bike for the past 2 months to address my concerns, here is what I got back from the dealer in an email last night:
"Didnt get into wobbles and handling concerns because the TECH and I are in agreement that it is more than likely in the rear suspension of the bike. That is strictly due to how low those shocks are, and the fact that they are an air shock versus a coil over oil dampened style of shock. "
"We replaced your front valve stem and it appears to have corrected the loss of tire pressure that you were experiencing. That could be one of the issues causing the wobble, and handling condition. "
As for your dealer's comments, stock bikes have air shocks, not 'coil over oil'! However, you've taken one of the cheapest nastiest rear shocks on the market and had them modified, which frankly is asking for problems. You can do so much better, as a way of improving your ride!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
Wobble generally comes from a couple of specific things.
You've lowered the rear of the bike 1-3/4", and the front 1". Yes, I know that Harley sells the Street Glide with only the rear lowered, but that makes for handling issues (harder to put the bike into a turn). Balance your suspension (raise the back or lower the front), and you've solved that problem. Be aware though that your reduced travel has compromised your lean angles, and the reduced compliance will make the bike more prone to being upset in bumpy corners.
Unsprung weight is the enemy. You've added a ton of it in your new front wheel, and that's going to screw up how the bike rides. Any wobble will be accentuated by the added mass.
Rear wheel alignment. I can't remember if 2007 had the adjuster screws or just the big cam nut on the rear axle. Regardless, you want to check this.
Tire pressure. You mentioned you were running Metzelers. They're a high-pressure tire, so the pressure recommendations in your manual are worthless. Call them for exact inflation numbers, but I believe you want to be somewhere around 40/44.
Motor mounts. Check 'em. A loose or worn mount will shake the hell out of your bike.
Swingarm donuts. Your bike is 6 years old, they're probably well on their way out.
Check the maintenance stuff first, hopefully that'll help. But be aware that the modifications you've made to the bike are doing you no favors in the ride or handling departments.
You've lowered the rear of the bike 1-3/4", and the front 1". Yes, I know that Harley sells the Street Glide with only the rear lowered, but that makes for handling issues (harder to put the bike into a turn). Balance your suspension (raise the back or lower the front), and you've solved that problem. Be aware though that your reduced travel has compromised your lean angles, and the reduced compliance will make the bike more prone to being upset in bumpy corners.
Unsprung weight is the enemy. You've added a ton of it in your new front wheel, and that's going to screw up how the bike rides. Any wobble will be accentuated by the added mass.
Rear wheel alignment. I can't remember if 2007 had the adjuster screws or just the big cam nut on the rear axle. Regardless, you want to check this.
Tire pressure. You mentioned you were running Metzelers. They're a high-pressure tire, so the pressure recommendations in your manual are worthless. Call them for exact inflation numbers, but I believe you want to be somewhere around 40/44.
Motor mounts. Check 'em. A loose or worn mount will shake the hell out of your bike.
Swingarm donuts. Your bike is 6 years old, they're probably well on their way out.
Check the maintenance stuff first, hopefully that'll help. But be aware that the modifications you've made to the bike are doing you no favors in the ride or handling departments.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,090
Likes: 7
As a service tech in an auto dealership, I know you don't want to hear this, but, with the extensive modifications you have done to this bike, I probably would have laughed if you complained of a handling problem. My advice would be to bring the bike back when you have returned it to factory condition.
Did all your modifications cause the wobble? I'm not even willing to venture a guess. But I also wouldn't be willing to entertain your complaint with a completely modified suspension and incorrect tire/wheel combination.
That said, bring the bike back in its original configuration and I'd be all over trying to diagnose your problem.
Dealer techs are trained to repair oem vehicles. When you alter one to this extent, it's way too easy to blame the extensive modifications. If you give them the bike in stock form, they don't have an out.
Flip the script... I had a handling issue with my bike, that I purchased used from a dealership. Long story condensed, I had not altered my suspension or wheels and tires. I returned it to the dealer I bought it from, and they were adamant that it didn't have a problem. I spent a lot of time and money on my own, and in the end, ditching the Dunlop tires fixed my bike.
Like I said, I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I think you should give it some consideration....
Best of luck!
Did all your modifications cause the wobble? I'm not even willing to venture a guess. But I also wouldn't be willing to entertain your complaint with a completely modified suspension and incorrect tire/wheel combination.
That said, bring the bike back in its original configuration and I'd be all over trying to diagnose your problem.
Dealer techs are trained to repair oem vehicles. When you alter one to this extent, it's way too easy to blame the extensive modifications. If you give them the bike in stock form, they don't have an out.
Flip the script... I had a handling issue with my bike, that I purchased used from a dealership. Long story condensed, I had not altered my suspension or wheels and tires. I returned it to the dealer I bought it from, and they were adamant that it didn't have a problem. I spent a lot of time and money on my own, and in the end, ditching the Dunlop tires fixed my bike.
Like I said, I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I think you should give it some consideration....
Best of luck!
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 237
Likes: 2
From: Snellville, GA.
My two cents. I see its a 2007. You are definitely in need of a front motor mount. Mine was shot on my 07 UC and the bike did feel a loose. Replaced it and it made a world of diffrence in the ride. They wear out more than people realize. Secondly, get rid of that ridiculous looking front tire for a normal size motorcycle tire. Leave the twenty and largers to the guys with the old worn out crown vics and pontiacs. JMHO
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 419
From: Vermont
First off Most guys will be on the dealership band wagon here as they are taught the dealer is king. If you change anything on this wonderful farm tractor the rain of hell fire will come down on you. LOL Basics say get the hell out of that dealer and go see a good Indy. Start at front. Wheel centered wheel bearing good? Front wheel run out? Next go to neck bearing, lube and do fall away. Tire pressures with a good known gauge. Now front motor mount(just change the damn thing) Check upper and lower link also. Go to rear and just pull the swing arm off and start over . check everything. Do check rear wheel bearing. Now do a complete alignment. Get the motor centered up(dont just go with factory setting)in frame ,align rear wheel with front. Now go ride it. Did it get better? All these things you will NEVER see some snot nosed wyo tech in a dealer do.They want to install bolt on do dades. This time of the year...forgetaboutit!!! LOL No time to do it rite. Just pump it out. Box stock answer from any dealership...problem not found at this time... Means get the hell out of here we have spent as much of your cash as we think we can get. You can put a digital gauge on the neck to check the rake. Just set shocks to get stock rake back. INDY is still your best bet. All the above can be done in and afternoon. Good luck