Checking timing on Ultra - help please
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 12
From: DOWN SOUTH
You shouldnt have to be doing all this troubleshooting, you paid for a good runnin stage 2 bike, that Harley Davidson dealer should make it right, they are the freakin dealer afterall and do that upgrade routinely. Did they at least flash your ECM for the stage 2 upgrade? You didnt mention that. You said they agreed that normally you dont need a tuner for the upgrade, but they should of flashed the stage 2 upgrade at least before you headed out the door. I would keep flash it back to whatever map they put on it and keep bugging them until they made it right, then add your tuner with the maps you already have. Hope you get her runnin right again.
Last edited by my67pnycar; Aug 22, 2013 at 12:39 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 872
Likes: 20
From: Niagara Falls Canada
have compression numbers
103 stage 2 kit 255 cams 195 psi rear 197 cylinder stock heads calculated ccp 207
then made dumb mistake changing heads to mva and piston to 10.5:1 ccp now way too high at about 215 real pressure with compression guage now 230 in front 222 in rear pulled like a tractor but the old starter lasted 6 months even with compression releases--now has andrews 32 in it ccp 192 actualy compression front 201 rear 208
due to fact I dont think the rehoning on the used cylinder took as well as they did new ,accounts for difference in reading front to rear , the slight oil drip from air clean more or less confirms that
didnt u have this posted in another post last week about your cams, i replied there too but didnt look up numbers written in shop manual thought 10.5:1 was in 240 range I should have look in book like I did this time
just lloked fpor other post same one -- as i suggested there u need to manuall open throttle plate with screw driver to get a more acurate reading while turning the motor over leave both plugs out do 1 cylinder at a time
then made dumb mistake changing heads to mva and piston to 10.5:1 ccp now way too high at about 215 real pressure with compression guage now 230 in front 222 in rear pulled like a tractor but the old starter lasted 6 months even with compression releases--now has andrews 32 in it ccp 192 actualy compression front 201 rear 208
due to fact I dont think the rehoning on the used cylinder took as well as they did new ,accounts for difference in reading front to rear , the slight oil drip from air clean more or less confirms that
didnt u have this posted in another post last week about your cams, i replied there too but didnt look up numbers written in shop manual thought 10.5:1 was in 240 range I should have look in book like I did this time
just lloked fpor other post same one -- as i suggested there u need to manuall open throttle plate with screw driver to get a more acurate reading while turning the motor over leave both plugs out do 1 cylinder at a time
Last edited by 2009blackpearle; Aug 23, 2013 at 07:23 AM.
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,196
Likes: 14
From: connecticut
OK, as some of you know, I have had hell ever since doing my 103" upgrade on my 09 Ultra. Without question, the dumbest thing I ever did to my scooter, that was running absolutely perfect prior. Anyway, now that we all know how dumb I am, I need to ask a question about checking the timing on my scooter. I have read that if the cams were installed even one notch off, it can cause the timing to be screwed up considerably. In have tried three auto tunes with my Power Vision with Auto tune Pro with no decent results, the bike runs as bad as ever. I asked the HD shop to check the cams to be sure they were in correctly, which they said they did (I was out of town) I am starting to think the problem is with the install since the tuning is doing nothing to help. I read somewhere that you can check each cylinder with a pressure gauge and they should be virtually the same if timing is correct, and off considerably if the timing is off. Is this true? I have already spent a ridiculous amount of money screwing up a perfectly good scooter, so before I go and spend more doing this, I was hoping someone here can confirm this is accurate? I have the 103" with 255 cams, what should the pressure be? How much difference will indicate a problem? Thanks all.... I am so disappointed I did this.
Your ccr with stock flat tops should be 200 psi with those cams and 236 if you have 10.5 to 1 pistons according to the calculator.
Last edited by sporacer; Aug 23, 2013 at 07:33 AM. Reason: add
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 872
Likes: 20
From: Niagara Falls Canada
tune the 255
i always had a bit of a dead spot from about 1800 to 2600 with all 3 engine combinations -- did several smart tune runs regenerated the map look at timing for pinging added a couple of degrees in that range looked again for pinging-- no more dead spot. I ended up taking some timing out around 3-4 grand range had some ping by ear and saw motor took some out when it sensed ping on test runs.
the 10.5 set up with mva heads made 93 hp and 100tq
the 10.5 set up with mva heads made 93 hp and 100tq
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,741
Likes: 45
From: Indian Land, SC
I had the some of those problems with my '96....After the 255 install, the motor was noisy and had no top end. A new ECM update gave me an overly rich condition, sputtering and an overall bad running bike.
Pulled the 255's out and installed TW-222 cams, updated the ECM and it's a totally different bike, no motor noise and strong performance in every gear. Don't know if it was the cams or the tune that straightened it out but something was definitely wrong prior.
I also thought about the timing marks being off a tooth but if they were, the bike would not have idled right. Lots of guys have no issues with the SE255 cams but my bike surely did not like them.
Pulled the 255's out and installed TW-222 cams, updated the ECM and it's a totally different bike, no motor noise and strong performance in every gear. Don't know if it was the cams or the tune that straightened it out but something was definitely wrong prior.
I also thought about the timing marks being off a tooth but if they were, the bike would not have idled right. Lots of guys have no issues with the SE255 cams but my bike surely did not like them.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,136
Likes: 6,158
From: SE Michigan
I have a 2009 Ultra. I brought it in to my local HD to have the compensator upgraded to the SE compensator. While in , they suggested saving some labor and doing the HD 103" with 255 cams. Also have a SE AC and 4" Rinehart slip on's. I agreed. Since the upgrade it runs terrible. They tried 3 downloads and could not get it running decent. They told me it needed tuning and wanted to sell me the HD SERT. I told them I did not realize I would have to buy a tuner to get my scooter running, and they said normally you don't. HD puts out countless of these builds with no tuner. Anyway, I took the bike, mostly cause I don't trust them, and bought a Power Vision with Auto Tune Pro. It does no good, so I am becoming convinced they screwed something up with the install. What it does is when I take off, it hesitates and wants to die out of 1st gear. If I keep the RPM's up I can get going. Once going, in any gear, if I roll on the throttle, it hesitates and backfires like crazy. If I ease it up through the gears, I can keep going, but if given any throttle, it is toast with hesitation and backfiring until I release the throttle.
Maybe the time it takes to get it on the lift, so... 30 seconds.
Its a bit off topic, I'll admit, but that jumped out at me.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,422
Likes: 14
From: Fla
Am I the only person that finds the text in bold above strange? I dont see how changing the comp sprocket in the primary saves even 60 seconds when doing a 103 kit+ cams.
Maybe the time it takes to get it on the lift, so... 30 seconds.
Its a bit off topic, I'll admit, but that jumped out at me.
Maybe the time it takes to get it on the lift, so... 30 seconds.
Its a bit off topic, I'll admit, but that jumped out at me.
Musta been a marketing strategy!
