Bagger wobble solved!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 127
From: Coastal Carolina
To you new owners, you should be aware that there is a difference of opinion as to whether wobble is an issue on 2009 and later touring frames if they are properly maintained, the tires are kept properly inflated and the rider knows what he's doing. But be forewarned that the wobble advocates are quite strident about their positions on this.
I am no engineer, I just ride the hell out of my bikes. I've put 32,000 miles on my 2011 with no hint of wobble in virtually every road condition you can imagine. I've taken sweepers at 75, 80, 85 mph with not a hint of instability. The only response I have received from the wobble folks when I have reported that on other threads is that I must ride like a ***** (or a "grandma" someone called me from behind the safety of his keyboard) and if I just got it up to 95 on a sweeper, I'd experience the problem. But, since that is a criminal misdemeanor offense (not a traffic infraction) virtually everywhere I ride on the East Coast (reckless driving by statutory definition) I have not tested their theory. I've had the bike up to the upper 90's when passing, but admittedly not on a sustained sweeper, so they could be right about the bike's handling under those circumstances. But on long sweepers at 85 and under it hasn't been an issue. So unless you are in the Southwest where 95 mph speeds on sweepers are apparently more common, you may not have to worry about it.
I'm not posting this to start a fight with the true believers (or Tru-track believers as the case may be
). I'm just telling you that in the opinion of this old rider, on the post 2009 frame, it's no longer a problem if your bike is maintained. But decide for yourself. Just wanted to let you know that this is not universally accepted.
I am no engineer, I just ride the hell out of my bikes. I've put 32,000 miles on my 2011 with no hint of wobble in virtually every road condition you can imagine. I've taken sweepers at 75, 80, 85 mph with not a hint of instability. The only response I have received from the wobble folks when I have reported that on other threads is that I must ride like a ***** (or a "grandma" someone called me from behind the safety of his keyboard) and if I just got it up to 95 on a sweeper, I'd experience the problem. But, since that is a criminal misdemeanor offense (not a traffic infraction) virtually everywhere I ride on the East Coast (reckless driving by statutory definition) I have not tested their theory. I've had the bike up to the upper 90's when passing, but admittedly not on a sustained sweeper, so they could be right about the bike's handling under those circumstances. But on long sweepers at 85 and under it hasn't been an issue. So unless you are in the Southwest where 95 mph speeds on sweepers are apparently more common, you may not have to worry about it.
I'm not posting this to start a fight with the true believers (or Tru-track believers as the case may be
). I'm just telling you that in the opinion of this old rider, on the post 2009 frame, it's no longer a problem if your bike is maintained. But decide for yourself. Just wanted to let you know that this is not universally accepted.
Last edited by TKDKurt; Jun 10, 2014 at 03:21 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
I have only heard of a handful of post 2009 bikes having an issue. After chasing this issue on my bike 2007, I really think this issue is more complicated than a single fix. With True Track, Bagger Brace, and others there are a lot more people that say it helped but did not fully solve the problem including my bike than claim problem fully resolved. I don't know of enough people that have installed Sta-bo or other swing arm bushing replacements that have rode long term after changing to them to know how effective they really are. I do stand firmly that the Bagger Brace makes the bike handle a lot better. I can really carve corners hard since I installed it. The handling improvement alone was worth the investment. There is more vibration transferred to the frame. I'm on the fence about changing out the swing arm bushings.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 678
Likes: 1
From: LA
The new frame has two mounting points at the front fitted with similar donuts to the rear.
Thank you all for this thread and getting me to go down and look at the bike! I never heard of "bagger wobble" before reading this thread so with a slack day today, I went down to the garage and jacked up the '03 electra glide and tried wiggling the wheel to see if there was any slack etc. Glad to see I couldn't feel any (I didn't loosen off the belt). However, I crawled around under it after reading the manual checking out what I had to do to remove the swing arm this winter and touched the lower bolt on the left side swing arm bracket and it was literally half out despite a lock washer. I do check my bolts at the beginning of the season and I have no idea how it got half way out! 5/8 socket, blue locktite and 38 lbs of torgue and it was fine. I don't like "critical fasteners" undone and my vivid imagination pictured what would have happened if the upper one had gone with a heavily loaded bike at speed. Thank you all again.
Last edited by Sanyasi; Jun 11, 2014 at 12:55 PM.
The new frame has a redesigned and doubled motor mount at the front, and the upper stabilizer link was moved from between the cylinders to in front of the forward cylinder, attached to the left downtube. These changes, along with better tires are mostly responsible for the better manners of the 09 and newer bikes. The frame itself has essentially nothing to do with it, other than as a mounting point for the stabilizer link and motor mounts.
You can acheive much of the same effect on the earlier bikes by changing to better tires, servicing your swingarm bushings, upgrading the forward motor mount to a urethane mount, and by adding a progressive touring link, or (if you are handy with a tig welder), swap to the newer style heads, and relocate your upper stabilizer to the new location. Moving the stabilizer link forward gives it more leverage to resist the lateral movement of the swingarm. Adding the Progressive touring link (bagger brace, etc) does essentially the same thing.
The swingarm bushings are fairly rigid, but even a little deflection is magnified out at the axle. It's possible to get any of these touring bikes handling well (at least a lot better than stock).
2009 style
2007
You can acheive much of the same effect on the earlier bikes by changing to better tires, servicing your swingarm bushings, upgrading the forward motor mount to a urethane mount, and by adding a progressive touring link, or (if you are handy with a tig welder), swap to the newer style heads, and relocate your upper stabilizer to the new location. Moving the stabilizer link forward gives it more leverage to resist the lateral movement of the swingarm. Adding the Progressive touring link (bagger brace, etc) does essentially the same thing.
The swingarm bushings are fairly rigid, but even a little deflection is magnified out at the axle. It's possible to get any of these touring bikes handling well (at least a lot better than stock).
2009 style
2007
Banned
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 678
Likes: 1
From: LA
Ah, number 9 ... that's the engine mount that I posted a picture of cut open to show the rubber inside.
Where's it mounting onto ... the exhaust studs? I suppose you could make up another bracket there? Overkill perhaps ... but an interesting thought.
Where's it mounting onto ... the exhaust studs? I suppose you could make up another bracket there? Overkill perhaps ... but an interesting thought.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,830
Likes: 7,968
From: poway
To you new owners, you should be aware that there is a difference of opinion as to whether wobble is an issue on 2009 and later touring frames if they are properly maintained, the tires are kept properly inflated and the rider knows what he's doing. But be forewarned that the wobble advocates are quite strident about their positions on this.
I am no engineer, I just ride the hell out of my bikes. I've put 32,000 miles on my 2011 with no hint of wobble in virtually every road condition you can imagine. I've taken sweepers at 75, 80, 85 mph with not a hint of instability. The only response I have received from the wobble folks when I have reported that on other threads is that I must ride like a ***** (or a "grandma" someone called me from behind the safety of his keyboard) and if I just got it up to 95 on a sweeper, I'd experience the problem. But, since that is a criminal misdemeanor offense (not a traffic infraction) virtually everywhere I ride on the East Coast (reckless driving by statutory definition) I have not tested their theory. I've had the bike up to the upper 90's when passing, but admittedly not on a sustained sweeper, so they could be right about the bike's handling under those circumstances. But on long sweepers at 85 and under it hasn't been an issue. So unless you are in the Southwest where 95 mph speeds on sweepers are apparently more common, you may not have to worry about it.
I'm not posting this to start a fight with the true believers (or Tru-track believers as the case may be). I'm just telling you that in the opinion of this old rider, on the post 2009 frame, it's no longer a problem if your bike is maintained. But decide for yourself. Just wanted to let you know that this is not universally accepted.
I am no engineer, I just ride the hell out of my bikes. I've put 32,000 miles on my 2011 with no hint of wobble in virtually every road condition you can imagine. I've taken sweepers at 75, 80, 85 mph with not a hint of instability. The only response I have received from the wobble folks when I have reported that on other threads is that I must ride like a ***** (or a "grandma" someone called me from behind the safety of his keyboard) and if I just got it up to 95 on a sweeper, I'd experience the problem. But, since that is a criminal misdemeanor offense (not a traffic infraction) virtually everywhere I ride on the East Coast (reckless driving by statutory definition) I have not tested their theory. I've had the bike up to the upper 90's when passing, but admittedly not on a sustained sweeper, so they could be right about the bike's handling under those circumstances. But on long sweepers at 85 and under it hasn't been an issue. So unless you are in the Southwest where 95 mph speeds on sweepers are apparently more common, you may not have to worry about it.
I'm not posting this to start a fight with the true believers (or Tru-track believers as the case may be
). I'm just telling you that in the opinion of this old rider, on the post 2009 frame, it's no longer a problem if your bike is maintained. But decide for yourself. Just wanted to let you know that this is not universally accepted.Every one thinks the new frames are better.. Sorry but they are worse.. All HD did was to increase trail and change the profile of the rear tire.. Notice the new tires are more rounded and have more of a sport bike profile.. This profile relieves stress on the drivetrain and helps to keep the force from drive off the rear tire pointing down the center of the frame.. The added trail only adds stability..
Now take a look at the attached picture.. The issue is lateral forces on the frame.. Notice how far a part the cross braces (green arrows) are from the point where the lateral forces (red double arrow) are applied..
Now this is where HD failed to do proper analysis.. Look at the far side of the frame.. It is split in half!! They are using only 1/2 a round tube to try and hold each side of the frame tight on the drivetrain mounting rubbers. What where they thinking (other than cost)?
Any sufficient lateral forces and the frame can spread.. All the bushing type gizmos do is to try an limit the rubber bushing from crushing.. Single side mounted stabilizers only do 1/2 the job.. In both cases the frame can still spread and stability is lost.. Lower cross brace stabilizers at least try to remove load from that section of the frame and transfer is better to the rest of the frame.
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Stage III
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Northern California (South Bay)
Couple of questions.
Will the Aurora GE25ET-2RS bearings fit my '06 FLHTCUI Ultra? I do not see that combo on Porscheman's list near the beginning of this thread.
And, are the HD 48489-02 bushings the right ones?
Also, any guidance on how I can look this up myself most kindly appreciated. I would like to learn how to be more self-sufficient, but cannot find my bearings here.....
Proton
Will the Aurora GE25ET-2RS bearings fit my '06 FLHTCUI Ultra? I do not see that combo on Porscheman's list near the beginning of this thread.
And, are the HD 48489-02 bushings the right ones?
Also, any guidance on how I can look this up myself most kindly appreciated. I would like to learn how to be more self-sufficient, but cannot find my bearings here.....
Proton
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 388
Likes: 36
From: USA
Yes, the bearing will fit. Per Ronnie's parts finder, your bike has the 9208 bearings. You can check the bushing at http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche....artsfinder.htm.
I have 1,500 miles on my new Aurora's now and love them, but still haven't ridden 70+mph sweepers.
I have 1,500 miles on my new Aurora's now and love them, but still haven't ridden 70+mph sweepers.
Last edited by GoofySB; Jul 8, 2014 at 11:22 PM.