STOCK vs MODs?
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Road Captain
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 524
Likes: 6
STOCK vs MODs?
I've been riding since the 60's; yes that makes me old. I've owned all kinds of bikes and right now the only bike in my garage is a 2012 stock RoadGlide Ultra. It's my 8th Harley and I've modified ever one. I've read with interest everything I can find so many of you guys post here in the forum about the pros and cons of staying stock vs mods. I'm not one that needs a lot of input from others to help me make my decisions and I don't feel the need to always follow the crowd. But I would like a few specific ideas about a few thoughts and I will just mention the items below as bullet statements and will say "thanks" in advance to you guys for your knowledgeable input.
--I don't need more power but one can never have too much power
--I don't necessarily need louder exhaust but stock is too quiet
--If I open the exhausts with no cats and 02 sensors will the cooler running engine prolong the engine life?
--I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup?
--I live in a state where we do not have cycle emission tests or checks; do you guys believe that the future will require us to submit to checks at rally's and roadside checks? I have heard of this happening but have not personally experienced it.
--I don't need more power but one can never have too much power
--I don't necessarily need louder exhaust but stock is too quiet
--If I open the exhausts with no cats and 02 sensors will the cooler running engine prolong the engine life?
--I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup?
--I live in a state where we do not have cycle emission tests or checks; do you guys believe that the future will require us to submit to checks at rally's and roadside checks? I have heard of this happening but have not personally experienced it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,149
Likes: 6,173
From: SE Michigan
Low cost: Adding better sounding mufflers, an open AC and fL-Vieds for fuel enrichment.
Higher cost, but still reasonable is to put new headpipes on, and your Vieds will still work.
I would consider American Customs exhaust, they use modified stock mufflers but have a modular baffle approach that allows you to choose your noise level.
Higher cost, but still reasonable is to put new headpipes on, and your Vieds will still work.
I would consider American Customs exhaust, they use modified stock mufflers but have a modular baffle approach that allows you to choose your noise level.
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Middle Georgia
I'll bite, old man:
--I don't need more power but one can never have too much powerI'm not concerned with power either, but I'm a firm believer that all combustion engines can run more efficient and any auto/cycle is very limited by emission standards from the factory. With that said, a 103" that is tuned and opened up from restricted intake and exhaust maximizes the efficiency which in turn = more power
--I don't necessarily need louder exhaust but stock is too quiet
Agree, which goes in connection to my statement above. I don't really like loud either, so I went with true duals and Klock Werks slipons. Very quiet during normal riding, open the throttle, open the sound
--If I open the exhausts with no cats and 02 sensors will the cooler running engine prolong the engine life?
I'm not sure if the CAT increases the engine temp, only the exhaust temp. I could be wrong, but it can't amount to much. If you had a piston ramming up and down your tube at about a gazillion revolutions per second, I'm pretty sure you couldn't tell the difference if your shoe had a catalytic converter in it....just sayin
--I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup? I only run a tuner, unrestricted breather and a catless exhaust. I'm not sure about longevity, but I have about 32k miles on a 09 with a 103" and it has never ran smoother than right now.
--I live in a state where we do not have cycle emission tests or checks; do you guys believe that the future will require us to submit to checks at rally's and roadside checks? I have heard of this happening but have not personally experienced it. Not being political, but while you were easy riding during Woodstock, did you every think that the biggest American agenda would be same sex marriage? don't worry, Zombies will come and eat the weak!!!! I'll be a regional king because I have land, more guns and ammo than Bass Pro
Old timer, some of my comments are in jest, but you can tell the ones that should resonate with your thoughts.
p.s. I'm retired, so I can say old timer to just about anybody I want to. I hope this helps though.
keep ridin',
Jim
--I don't need more power but one can never have too much powerI'm not concerned with power either, but I'm a firm believer that all combustion engines can run more efficient and any auto/cycle is very limited by emission standards from the factory. With that said, a 103" that is tuned and opened up from restricted intake and exhaust maximizes the efficiency which in turn = more power
--I don't necessarily need louder exhaust but stock is too quiet
Agree, which goes in connection to my statement above. I don't really like loud either, so I went with true duals and Klock Werks slipons. Very quiet during normal riding, open the throttle, open the sound
--If I open the exhausts with no cats and 02 sensors will the cooler running engine prolong the engine life?
I'm not sure if the CAT increases the engine temp, only the exhaust temp. I could be wrong, but it can't amount to much. If you had a piston ramming up and down your tube at about a gazillion revolutions per second, I'm pretty sure you couldn't tell the difference if your shoe had a catalytic converter in it....just sayin
--I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup? I only run a tuner, unrestricted breather and a catless exhaust. I'm not sure about longevity, but I have about 32k miles on a 09 with a 103" and it has never ran smoother than right now.
--I live in a state where we do not have cycle emission tests or checks; do you guys believe that the future will require us to submit to checks at rally's and roadside checks? I have heard of this happening but have not personally experienced it. Not being political, but while you were easy riding during Woodstock, did you every think that the biggest American agenda would be same sex marriage? don't worry, Zombies will come and eat the weak!!!! I'll be a regional king because I have land, more guns and ammo than Bass Pro
p.s. I'm retired, so I can say old timer to just about anybody I want to. I hope this helps though.
keep ridin',
Jim
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
my take is that the evo was a bullet proof motor...pretty much the peak of Harley's abilities
the twin cam is being stretched to design limits ( think what happened to the British vertical twins and triples)- where we are not that far from discovering the next weakest link waiting to break if stressed much farther.
with that in mind I have left my twin cam at stage 1.
( 09, 96", stock no cat headers, hi flow ness intake and hi flow supertrapp exhaust, xieds)
I have other faster bikes, and have seen over the years people dump thousands and thousands into a great bike which soon became unreliable and tempermental.
Fun but only for short periods.
In Maricopa County we have just stopped testing motorcycles ( EPA waiver awarded) above 90cc's, the testing standards allowed such a high amount of HC and CO for the air cooled motors that probably 85% passed first time ( all my Harleys did, the BMW did take some fiddling).
But 2010 and up bikes are subject to regulations which could be enforced in time, keep the stock pipe around if you swap.
as far as heat, the motor I think runs the same with or with out cat- but the header will retain alot more heat with a cat, which will radiate and be felt by the rider- kinda like when the cats came out in '75 and guys with corvettes burned up the lawn.
I don't care who marries who, but i sure don't want my upwind neighbor burning tires in his yard.
Mike
the twin cam is being stretched to design limits ( think what happened to the British vertical twins and triples)- where we are not that far from discovering the next weakest link waiting to break if stressed much farther.
with that in mind I have left my twin cam at stage 1.
( 09, 96", stock no cat headers, hi flow ness intake and hi flow supertrapp exhaust, xieds)
I have other faster bikes, and have seen over the years people dump thousands and thousands into a great bike which soon became unreliable and tempermental.
Fun but only for short periods.
In Maricopa County we have just stopped testing motorcycles ( EPA waiver awarded) above 90cc's, the testing standards allowed such a high amount of HC and CO for the air cooled motors that probably 85% passed first time ( all my Harleys did, the BMW did take some fiddling).
But 2010 and up bikes are subject to regulations which could be enforced in time, keep the stock pipe around if you swap.
as far as heat, the motor I think runs the same with or with out cat- but the header will retain alot more heat with a cat, which will radiate and be felt by the rider- kinda like when the cats came out in '75 and guys with corvettes burned up the lawn.
I don't care who marries who, but i sure don't want my upwind neighbor burning tires in his yard.
Mike
Last edited by mkguitar; Oct 8, 2013 at 06:15 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
If you plan on keeping the bike for any length of time and have the urge to modify it, I'd suggest doing it once and doing it right. A good Stage 1 will have the bike running cooler, smoother, more efficiently, and more powerfully. It won't necessarily do anything positive or negative regarding longevity.
I'd suggest:
- Jackpot 2:1:2 headpipe
- Any hi-flow air cleaner
- If you plan to go no farther than Stage 1 and/or you have no interest in playing with your fuel injection, get a FM Micro Tuner, otherwise get a Power Vision.
- Mufflers of your choice. I'm a HUGE fan of the S/E Fatshotz, but all of them come down to what sounds good to you.
Yes, it's a lot of money. But as I said, buy once, cry once. The 103 runs really well when you let it breathe. I think you'll like it.
I'd suggest:
- Jackpot 2:1:2 headpipe
- Any hi-flow air cleaner
- If you plan to go no farther than Stage 1 and/or you have no interest in playing with your fuel injection, get a FM Micro Tuner, otherwise get a Power Vision.
- Mufflers of your choice. I'm a HUGE fan of the S/E Fatshotz, but all of them come down to what sounds good to you.
Yes, it's a lot of money. But as I said, buy once, cry once. The 103 runs really well when you let it breathe. I think you'll like it.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 6
From: New Jersey
Seriously, though, for me there IS an end in sight. I'm quite pleased, having reached Stage 1, but there still may be a "comfort tweak" or a "touring mod" in my future...
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Peyton, CO
Yep, I've said that before! Now I'm looking at all of the money I'm gonna be pouring into my SG!
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
I've been riding since the 60's; yes that makes me old. I've owned all kinds of bikes and right now the only bike in my garage is a 2012 stock RoadGlide Ultra. It's my 8th Harley and I've modified ever one. I've read with interest everything I can find so many of you guys post here in the forum about the pros and cons of staying stock vs mods. I'm not one that needs a lot of input from others to help me make my decisions and I don't feel the need to always follow the crowd. But I would like a few specific ideas about a few thoughts and I will just mention the items below as bullet statements and will say "thanks" in advance to you guys for your knowledgeable input.
I was also riding in the '60s and still can't leave anything stock. Newer Harleys run pretty bad trying to meet EPA with old air cooled tech. An air cleaner, slip-ons and tuner with proper tune can correct a lot.
--I don't need more power but one can never have too much power.
A basic stage 1 will give ya about 10% and a better running motor. A Good cam and header can boost that another 10-20%. I believe going over 100 hp gets into the area of crank problems as does bumping the rev limit?
--I don't necessarily need louder exhaust but stock is too quiet
Sound is a personal thing but I do believe noise has little to do with performance and I'm a fan of supertrapp. Running SE Fatshotz on my EG.
--If I open the exhausts with no cats and 02 sensors will the cooler running engine prolong the engine life?
I don't think the cat adds much/any engine heat or steals much power on a stock/stage1 motor but it does create excess heat if ya rich up the mixture which could also plug the cat over time. I don't think the cat has anything with engine life? I will say a good xpipe will make a positive difference in heat and performance.
I would not get rid of the o2s, they are actually good things.
--I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup?
A proper tune will help longevity more than anything.
--I live in a state where we do not have cycle emission tests or checks; do you guys believe that the future will require us to submit to checks at rally's and roadside checks? I have heard of this happening but have not personally experienced it.
I was also riding in the '60s and still can't leave anything stock. Newer Harleys run pretty bad trying to meet EPA with old air cooled tech. An air cleaner, slip-ons and tuner with proper tune can correct a lot.
--I don't need more power but one can never have too much power.
A basic stage 1 will give ya about 10% and a better running motor. A Good cam and header can boost that another 10-20%. I believe going over 100 hp gets into the area of crank problems as does bumping the rev limit?
--I don't necessarily need louder exhaust but stock is too quiet
Sound is a personal thing but I do believe noise has little to do with performance and I'm a fan of supertrapp. Running SE Fatshotz on my EG.
--If I open the exhausts with no cats and 02 sensors will the cooler running engine prolong the engine life?
I don't think the cat adds much/any engine heat or steals much power on a stock/stage1 motor but it does create excess heat if ya rich up the mixture which could also plug the cat over time. I don't think the cat has anything with engine life? I will say a good xpipe will make a positive difference in heat and performance.
I would not get rid of the o2s, they are actually good things.
--I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup?
A proper tune will help longevity more than anything.
--I live in a state where we do not have cycle emission tests or checks; do you guys believe that the future will require us to submit to checks at rally's and roadside checks? I have heard of this happening but have not personally experienced it.
Good Luck!
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 23
From: Connecticut
[[ --I think a poor mod job might take away engine durability over the long-haul but would a proper mod job enhance engine life over the factory setup? ]]
My opinion and mine only:
The engine is probably going to be more "durable" over the long term if one _doesn't_ open it up in any way. I don't see where changing the air cleaner could hurt much, or even the pipes, so long as you compensate with some kind of tuner add-on.
My '07 Road Glide (which I bought used in 2011 with 7,350 miles) came with a Screamin' Eagle air cleaner, loud pipes, and a Power Commander IIIusb. I had the dealer take the loud pipes off and put a factory set back on. Bike runs pretty good "as is". I think I ought to leave well-enough alone in this case.
My opinion and mine only:
The engine is probably going to be more "durable" over the long term if one _doesn't_ open it up in any way. I don't see where changing the air cleaner could hurt much, or even the pipes, so long as you compensate with some kind of tuner add-on.
My '07 Road Glide (which I bought used in 2011 with 7,350 miles) came with a Screamin' Eagle air cleaner, loud pipes, and a Power Commander IIIusb. I had the dealer take the loud pipes off and put a factory set back on. Bike runs pretty good "as is". I think I ought to leave well-enough alone in this case.