Problems with dealer cam install
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
Problems with dealer cam install
HI, I have been reading through the forums for quite awhile now and learning quite a bit but now I need a little help, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
This may be a little long winded so bare with me.... I have a 2009 Roadking Police I recently installed a SE Heavy Breather, FullSac DX Pipe and FuelMoto Dyno Tuned Slip-ons. Now I am pretty good with my hands but when it comes to engine work I feel like i know enough to be dangerous. So I brought the bike to the dealer to have a SE Compensator and Wood TW-222 Cams put in. After the install was complete I looked at my Dyno results and noticed something was wrong. After the install of everything mentioned above I gained a whooping 1-HP and 8-Tq and the lines looked like someone was drunk when they drew them, I told the dealer something was wrong they insisted everything was fine. I called Bob Wood and FuelMoto and both agreed there was indeed a problem. Dealer finally accepted that there was a problem and did a compression test, results where 190 and 180. Dealer now states I need new piston rings because im loosing all my power to compression loss, I asked to do a leak down test - result was 10%. Dealer says cams where put in right but agrees there is a problem now and are in contact with Bob Wood. Does anyone have any Idea or suggestion what could be the problem (besides incompetence). I will take the bike elsewhere but want to try and have the dealer fix the problem so I don't have to pay someone to redo the work.
(PS: Tuning was done with SERT)
Thank you for reading and any suggestion is greatly appreciated!
This may be a little long winded so bare with me.... I have a 2009 Roadking Police I recently installed a SE Heavy Breather, FullSac DX Pipe and FuelMoto Dyno Tuned Slip-ons. Now I am pretty good with my hands but when it comes to engine work I feel like i know enough to be dangerous. So I brought the bike to the dealer to have a SE Compensator and Wood TW-222 Cams put in. After the install was complete I looked at my Dyno results and noticed something was wrong. After the install of everything mentioned above I gained a whooping 1-HP and 8-Tq and the lines looked like someone was drunk when they drew them, I told the dealer something was wrong they insisted everything was fine. I called Bob Wood and FuelMoto and both agreed there was indeed a problem. Dealer finally accepted that there was a problem and did a compression test, results where 190 and 180. Dealer now states I need new piston rings because im loosing all my power to compression loss, I asked to do a leak down test - result was 10%. Dealer says cams where put in right but agrees there is a problem now and are in contact with Bob Wood. Does anyone have any Idea or suggestion what could be the problem (besides incompetence). I will take the bike elsewhere but want to try and have the dealer fix the problem so I don't have to pay someone to redo the work.
(PS: Tuning was done with SERT)
Thank you for reading and any suggestion is greatly appreciated!
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
Having a 10# variance between the two cylinders and 10% leakdown, IMHO, is not the reason for the poor results.
Let a SERT competent tuner have a crack at tuning before you go down a rabbit hole. The SERT is a good tuner in the hands of a competent tuner; not every dealer tuner is SERT competent. I suspect what might have occured is that the tuner, lacking SERT tuning skills, downloaded a map and called it good.
Or, call Steve Cole, the SERT designer and see what map he would recommend for your cnfiguration. The right map could improve things but is no substitute for a proper dyno tune. You could download the map yourself. A SERT qualified tuner can do a couple of mild pulls and look at the tables and tell you if a re-tune is going to make a difference.
Let a SERT competent tuner have a crack at tuning before you go down a rabbit hole. The SERT is a good tuner in the hands of a competent tuner; not every dealer tuner is SERT competent. I suspect what might have occured is that the tuner, lacking SERT tuning skills, downloaded a map and called it good.
Or, call Steve Cole, the SERT designer and see what map he would recommend for your cnfiguration. The right map could improve things but is no substitute for a proper dyno tune. You could download the map yourself. A SERT qualified tuner can do a couple of mild pulls and look at the tables and tell you if a re-tune is going to make a difference.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
Chances are the problem is in your tune (or lack of it) Most dealers couldn't tune their way out of a paper bag. If you want it right, I would find a competent dyno tuner and then bring back the results to the service mgr and ask for a partial refund.
Thread Starter
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4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
Well that makes me feel a little better knowing that it could be just the tune, I don't wanna end up rebuilding the motor if I don't have to. If the cams where off timing the compression would be way off between the two cylinders right? Like 30-40% difference?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
If the dyno lines "looked like someone was drunk when they drew them" I would guess a bad tune.
If the cams where off the compression would NOT be way off between the two cylinders because they would both be off the same amount.
190 cranking seems about right for 222s in a stock 103 but they could be a tooth off. Pretty easy to pull the cover and have a look.
If the cams where off the compression would NOT be way off between the two cylinders because they would both be off the same amount.
190 cranking seems about right for 222s in a stock 103 but they could be a tooth off. Pretty easy to pull the cover and have a look.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,341
Likes: 714
i think theres more than a few dealers using dyno operators who dump in a canned map and call it good.
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Joined: Aug 2013
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From: Machesney park
Can you post the Dyno sheets with afr front and rear and gear ratio so we can see if your clutch is slipping also.
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If one of the cams were off by a tooth, you'd likely see a larger discrepancy in compression between the two cylinders. could be as much as 30 ft/lbs or a little more. I've not seen one as low as 10 ft lbs, but it still bears checking.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
HI, I have been reading through the forums for quite awhile now and learning quite a bit but now I need a little help, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
This may be a little long winded so bare with me.... I have a 2009 Roadking Police I recently installed a SE Heavy Breather, FullSac DX Pipe and FuelMoto Dyno Tuned Slip-ons. Now I am pretty good with my hands but when it comes to engine work I feel like i know enough to be dangerous. So I brought the bike to the dealer to have a SE Compensator and Wood TW-222 Cams put in. After the install was complete I looked at my Dyno results and noticed something was wrong. After the install of everything mentioned above I gained a whooping 1-HP and 8-Tq and the lines looked like someone was drunk when they drew them, I told the dealer something was wrong they insisted everything was fine. I called Bob Wood and FuelMoto and both agreed there was indeed a problem. Dealer finally accepted that there was a problem and did a compression test, results where 190 and 180. Dealer now states I need new piston rings because im loosing all my power to compression loss, I asked to do a leak down test - result was 10%. Dealer says cams where put in right but agrees there is a problem now and are in contact with Bob Wood. Does anyone have any Idea or suggestion what could be the problem (besides incompetence). I will take the bike elsewhere but want to try and have the dealer fix the problem so I don't have to pay someone to redo the work.
(PS: Tuning was done with SERT)
Thank you for reading and any suggestion is greatly appreciated!
This may be a little long winded so bare with me.... I have a 2009 Roadking Police I recently installed a SE Heavy Breather, FullSac DX Pipe and FuelMoto Dyno Tuned Slip-ons. Now I am pretty good with my hands but when it comes to engine work I feel like i know enough to be dangerous. So I brought the bike to the dealer to have a SE Compensator and Wood TW-222 Cams put in. After the install was complete I looked at my Dyno results and noticed something was wrong. After the install of everything mentioned above I gained a whooping 1-HP and 8-Tq and the lines looked like someone was drunk when they drew them, I told the dealer something was wrong they insisted everything was fine. I called Bob Wood and FuelMoto and both agreed there was indeed a problem. Dealer finally accepted that there was a problem and did a compression test, results where 190 and 180. Dealer now states I need new piston rings because im loosing all my power to compression loss, I asked to do a leak down test - result was 10%. Dealer says cams where put in right but agrees there is a problem now and are in contact with Bob Wood. Does anyone have any Idea or suggestion what could be the problem (besides incompetence). I will take the bike elsewhere but want to try and have the dealer fix the problem so I don't have to pay someone to redo the work.
(PS: Tuning was done with SERT)
Thank you for reading and any suggestion is greatly appreciated!
Those compression numbers aren't off that much at all. The 10% leak down isn't bad either. They probably didn't do that right either. Leak down is subject to be off if regulator isn't adjusted just right and gauges can be different also. The engine needs to be warmed up also. Too easy to mess that one up. Once you figure out for sure which tuner you have you may want to get a set of cables and put the software on your computer and do map yourself. If you want to send me a PM with email address and which tuner for sure and I can send you a map. If it is actually a SERT I won't be able to help as I don't have base map for them. Harley quit making them in 07 or 08. You can get it upgraded to a TTS if it is a SERT for $100 and it will do anything you need then. We have three dyno shops in 100 miles of here and they all can do bad work. Seems it is worse if you don't use harley cams.