Is this true about 2007's

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Mar 17, 2007 | 08:31 PM

#11

drocken

Cruiser

Joined: Aug 2006

Posts: 101

Likes: 0

From: Missouri

RE: Is this true about 2007's

Quote:

ORIGINAL: TWINCAM96

I have been told that if you just change the pipes the 02 sensors will adjust the difference, but if you do the intake you will have to remap with a sert or pc

Thats what I have been told also buy 4 different dealers,,,,

Mar 18, 2007 | 08:20 PM

#12

brantd

Stage II

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 2

Likes: 0

From:

RE: Is this true about 2007's

So what's a poor boy to do?
You cant put much faith in what the dealer or his tech. tells you.
Take it to an independent shop, and MA HARLEY wont stand behind the warranty???

Mar 18, 2007 | 09:54 PM

#13

geargrinder

Road Master

Joined: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,058

Likes: 6

From: Omaha Nebraska

RE: Is this true about 2007's

There is some confusion here because their is some learning capabilites. An '07' will learn idle and part throttle applications only. The narrow band O2 sensors, with the ECM's closed loop capability, will regulate the A/F ratio to approx 14.7:1 and as the bike is driven the ECM's fuel trims will learn and store thisfor future reference. If modifications are made, this idle and part throttle closed loop function will relearn again providing that the mods are within thier learning limits. However, due to the narrow band O2's inability to accurately read correct wide open throttlemore richfuel mixtures, the ECM goes to open loop disabling the O2s monitoring capabilities, thus wide open throttle A/F could be incorrectbecause of any modifications andusually needs to be custom tuned.

Mar 18, 2007 | 11:05 PM

#14

WVULTRA

Road Captain

Joined: Feb 2006

Posts: 739

Likes: 3

RE: Is this true about 2007's

Closed-Loop Operation

Background

2006 EFI Dyna models come equipped with 2 "switching" sensorsâ€¦also known as stoichiometric sensors. Unlike wide-band sensors which can measure and control over a wide AFR range (10-20), switching sensors can only control within a narrow range (+/- 0.5 AFR). This offset in control is accomplished with the EFI Race Tuner by adjusting the Closed-Loop Bias table.

Closed-loop operation is only used when the engine is in a normal operating condition. There are several instances when the ECM goes into open-loop operation. These include: warm-up, high load or high RPM operating conditions (such as WOT), when the vehicle is in Hot Engine Management, or any time the AFR requested is richer than 14.6.

The AFR table controls the operating conditions in which the ECM will enable closed-loop. The AFR cell must equal 14.6 for the ECM to enable closed-loop operation. This allows the user to control if and when the bike is in closed-loop simply using the AFR table.

The new table that has been added this year is the Closed-Loop Bias table. This table is used to shift the AFR richer or leaner during closed-loop operation. This table is a function of engine speed and map load. The cell values are the switching voltage that the ECM controls to. A lower voltage will control leaner, and a higher number controls richer. This table is used by the ECM in addition to the AFR table to determine what AFR to control to.

Example:

Using calibration 141NX001. Looking at 1750 rpm and 40 kPa, the AFR table shows 14.6 and the Closed-Loop Bias table shows 447mV. With these values, the ECM will be in closed-loop operation and will control to approximately 14.4. In order to change the fuel delivered to the engine in this condition, the Closed-Loop Bias table would be used. 500 mV will make the mixture slightly richer, and 400 mV will make the mixture slightly leaner.

Changes to the Closed-Loop Bias table are done for the same reasons the AFR table would be changed: power, fuel economy, knock, etc.

Mar 19, 2007 | 02:13 AM

#15

cjuetten

Tourer

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 422

Likes: 0

From:

RE: Is this true about 2007's

Quote:

ORIGINAL: R1Geezrglide

there is a rumor going around that the 08's will employ wide-band sensor tech...

Most likely false rumor....HellHarley's still 10 years behindthe automotive industry. You can't possibly believe they would pass them one year later.They still need to incorporate a MAF (mass air flow) sensor just to becurrent. Also the added cost would have no benefit on a bike that remained stock....which is most.

NO ONEknew about the 96" motor before it hit, so I doubt anyone's gonna scoop something so trivial as the type of O2 sensor used next year.

Mar 19, 2007 | 02:50 AM

#16

voodoodrug

Stellar HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2006

Posts: 3,236

Likes: 95

From: lancaster, pa

RE: Is this true about 2007's

there are leaks from the factory about nxt year ..ect.I was offered some in casual conversationbut declined cause I didnot really want to know and its better as a surprise. Ive wondered why there arent any posted on forum? After all humans build these bikes and sometimes pissed off humans that where just on strike.

Mar 19, 2007 | 11:37 AM

#17

ffb

Tourer

Joined: Sep 2006

Posts: 375

Likes: 0

RE: Is this true about 2007's

SINCE I ADDED 2 into 1 pipe,air cleaner,and pc3 and dynoed the bike it is running approx,,i think, 20 to 25 degrees cooler overall.

Mar 19, 2007 | 12:15 PM

#18

geargrinder

Road Master

Joined: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,058

Likes: 6

From: Omaha Nebraska

RE: Is this true about 2007's

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cjuetten

Quote:

ORIGINAL: R1Geezrglide

there is a rumor going around that the 08's will employ wide-band sensor tech...

Just my opinion here,because the EPA, CARB etc does not monitor or care about wide open throttle, the auto industry can not justify the extra expense and complexity of a100% closed loop, wide band system. The auto manufacturers and mostdealers are not interested in aftermarket add-ons and custom tuning so why go there. However, HD and its dealers are and it's obvious that most EFI tuners are over their heads with modified bikes and custom EFItuning so it may be advantages for HD to helpthem out withfull time wide band tuning and thus sell more of theseprofitable upgrades. It would be a much better system then anything currently on the market because I'm sureit would be a speed density (MAP sensor) self tuning stratagy forthe HDspeed density ECM Vs the now available aftermarketalpha-N (TPS sensor) strategy wide band tuners for a HDspeed density system. So, HD would havemore incentive then the auto market but I doubt we will see it soon.