Power/Performance advice please
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Black Hills, SD
Power/Performance advice please
Good morning All~
Its been a while... I stop by for a read every now and then though.
My quandary is that I have a 2112 FLHX that I have really liked since the day i bought it and have done numerious upgrades to. In the power area I have done intake, exhaust, 255 cams and the SE tuner. After riding her for a couple years this way i am getting a little board with the power output and am looking for more when i twist the throttle...
My question is, what would be your next step to improve power performance on this setup? I live in western South Dakota and ride through the hills allot so low end grunt is important to me but as of lately I am looking for more power in all conditions.
Ive thought about doing everything from a 110" big boar to adding a turbo and just cannot seem to land on a decision. Id like to keep my costs to a few thousand if at all possible.
A few of the people I have spoken to about doing the 110" upgrade have kind of swayed me against that option as they feel like I can get darn close dyne numbers out of a properly tuned and setup 103" so I am kind of spinning my wheels (sort a speak).
Any thoughts or words of experiance would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
JT
Its been a while... I stop by for a read every now and then though.
My quandary is that I have a 2112 FLHX that I have really liked since the day i bought it and have done numerious upgrades to. In the power area I have done intake, exhaust, 255 cams and the SE tuner. After riding her for a couple years this way i am getting a little board with the power output and am looking for more when i twist the throttle...
My question is, what would be your next step to improve power performance on this setup? I live in western South Dakota and ride through the hills allot so low end grunt is important to me but as of lately I am looking for more power in all conditions.
Ive thought about doing everything from a 110" big boar to adding a turbo and just cannot seem to land on a decision. Id like to keep my costs to a few thousand if at all possible.
A few of the people I have spoken to about doing the 110" upgrade have kind of swayed me against that option as they feel like I can get darn close dyne numbers out of a properly tuned and setup 103" so I am kind of spinning my wheels (sort a speak).
Any thoughts or words of experiance would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
JT
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
my first thought when I read posts for making a Harley go fast is...
think about buying a used hayabusa or Ducati for about 4 or 5 grand.
then you have a great bike that is built to go fast, stop and turn- and will probably cost you much less even when you factor in the extra registration and insurance costs.
more than 1 bike is a really fun way to ride.
I've seen all kinds of pals dump thousands and thousands and end up with a tempermental bike that gets poor mpg and breaks alot.
another real factor is handling- the batwing fairing unloads the front end at air speeds above about 85 MPH- that can get the front wheel dancing around...a sudden crosswind gust can make for a sudden exit.
the popular 107" kit gets good reviews- after that- I dunno.
if you can only be seen on a harley- fxr's are plenty fast, strip down well for less weight and handle very, very well.
read this thread:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...urbo-120r.html
mike
think about buying a used hayabusa or Ducati for about 4 or 5 grand.
then you have a great bike that is built to go fast, stop and turn- and will probably cost you much less even when you factor in the extra registration and insurance costs.
more than 1 bike is a really fun way to ride.
I've seen all kinds of pals dump thousands and thousands and end up with a tempermental bike that gets poor mpg and breaks alot.
another real factor is handling- the batwing fairing unloads the front end at air speeds above about 85 MPH- that can get the front wheel dancing around...a sudden crosswind gust can make for a sudden exit.
the popular 107" kit gets good reviews- after that- I dunno.
if you can only be seen on a harley- fxr's are plenty fast, strip down well for less weight and handle very, very well.
read this thread:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...urbo-120r.html
mike
Last edited by mkguitar; May 11, 2014 at 01:51 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,323
Likes: 37
From: NJ
I had your set up, won a few bucks gambling then blew it and more on a 106 S&S kit.
Here is what I can tell you.
After having the 106 installed with S&S recommended cams, heads, etc I had a bike that could get up and go (pull away) notably faster from speeds as high as 80 mph I still had a fist full of throttle to make a move and get way ahead of traffic or a problem at 80 mph.
Previous to that bike ran great with my 255 cams and stock 96 set up and all but this set up does put a smile on your face. I know it's only 106 but I'm just telling ya that it's a nice set up. So is fuel moto 107 from what I read.
I have about 20k on the S&S stuff and never had a hic up or a leak or a problem at all.
Mike knows engines I don't. So this is from a guy who just rides but I do ride it hard and mostly all highway high speed stuff. So far so good.
Cost soup to nuts done by a well known speed shop in my area was about 4 k Inc labor and parts, tune etc.
Here is what I can tell you.
After having the 106 installed with S&S recommended cams, heads, etc I had a bike that could get up and go (pull away) notably faster from speeds as high as 80 mph I still had a fist full of throttle to make a move and get way ahead of traffic or a problem at 80 mph.
Previous to that bike ran great with my 255 cams and stock 96 set up and all but this set up does put a smile on your face. I know it's only 106 but I'm just telling ya that it's a nice set up. So is fuel moto 107 from what I read.
I have about 20k on the S&S stuff and never had a hic up or a leak or a problem at all.
Mike knows engines I don't. So this is from a guy who just rides but I do ride it hard and mostly all highway high speed stuff. So far so good.
Cost soup to nuts done by a well known speed shop in my area was about 4 k Inc labor and parts, tune etc.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
Next step is headwork and matching cam, to get around 115tq/110hp+. It gets costly after that 110/113/117/124+ because the cases need to come apart for boring and crank addressed for scissoring. Other route is supercharger or turbo = more $ but also power. At some point it is still a big heavy pig, but faster???
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
From: Virginia Beach
I was in a similar situation, except I have 222's. I sent my heads to Dragos for his stage 2, which included porting, polishing, larger valves and a bump in CR to around 10-10.25. It REALLY woke my bike up! Huge difference in the seat of my pants. I am planning to get it dynoed in the next couple of weeks. Educated opinions have told me I should end up approaching 110hp and just under 120 ft. lbs. of torque. Frank charged $895 for the head work. That and some gaskets and I got out for under a grand. (I wrenched it myself.) It runs so well I am convinced I have reached that point of diminishing returns and it would cost a whole lot more money to get any more noticable seat of the pants performance. Good luck.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Black Hills, SD
[ I am convinced I have reached that point of diminishing returns and it would cost a whole lot more money to get any more noticable seat of the pants performance. Good luck.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the input guys!
Rockajet... That is exactly why I asked this question here. I am really interested in what others have done and trying to learn from their experience. I don't want to throw good money at this setup if there is a better way to get there from here.
Gliden... I have the 103 now. Do you think there would be much differance between it and the 106? I know when I did the upgrade on the 103 it was a totally differant bike and I thought I had all i would ever need... HA! to that... I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be enough
)
Oldhippie... Thanks for your input as well. I have had this suggestion a few times from various people and think I will be looking seriously into some head work. As far as a super charger or blower... I think Ill have to pass :O) I might just hang a blue bottle on the dam thing and be done with it!
Thank you for the input guys!
Rockajet... That is exactly why I asked this question here. I am really interested in what others have done and trying to learn from their experience. I don't want to throw good money at this setup if there is a better way to get there from here.
Gliden... I have the 103 now. Do you think there would be much differance between it and the 106? I know when I did the upgrade on the 103 it was a totally differant bike and I thought I had all i would ever need... HA! to that... I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be enough
)Oldhippie... Thanks for your input as well. I have had this suggestion a few times from various people and think I will be looking seriously into some head work. As far as a super charger or blower... I think Ill have to pass :O) I might just hang a blue bottle on the dam thing and be done with it!
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Black Hills, SD
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
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From: Monroe, Louisiana
I have some with cars. I don't think nitrous would be worth the headache of keeping it maintained. It will stress test every component of your bike and if you run lean one time it will likely cook something or cave in the ring lands or blow the center out of the plug or hole in piston. I don't think it is at all suitable for the street. You need forged pistons welded crank and probably chain drive to start with much less the nitrous system. A small bike bottle of nitrous probably won't last a minute either. Just my opinion and I am sure someone has done miracles and made it work great on the street.
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I know the VRod loves Nitrous but I think it works so well partially because it is a liquid cooled engine. Air cooled engines can develop hot spots and I would be afraid to run a hearty shot of Nitrous through an air cooled engine.
I was in that situation too once... wanted some more performance to "leap out of the way of errant drivers" --- I got a VRod (VRSCDX). Still a Harley (or Porche depending your POV) but a very performance oriented machine for sure and very unlike the rest of the Harley line.
I was in that situation too once... wanted some more performance to "leap out of the way of errant drivers" --- I got a VRod (VRSCDX). Still a Harley (or Porche depending your POV) but a very performance oriented machine for sure and very unlike the rest of the Harley line.
Hey... another thing you can do is to calculate your horsepower to weight ratio (including rider) and figure out ways to lower the weight load on your bike. I have a spreadsheet somewhere where I calculated the equivalent horsepower gains gotten from removing weight and just removing the 850 gram inspection sticker plate saved me something like 1/8th of a horsepower (guessing now... it has been sometime). Changing metal fenders for carbon-fiber can shed considerable weight. I dropped about 6 pounds by just going to Pirelli Night Dragon tires (same size as OEM... but larger tire patch too).
Also you can do things to reduce air drag on the motorcycle. Or reduce rolling resistance by moving to ceramic wheel bearings. There are performance spark plugs out there that can give you small gains. Even fuel injectors that are improved over HD OEM and provide better fuel atomization. Also synthetic oils lower the internal resistance of the the engine itself. When it comes to performance these small steps to better performance are additive.
You could also put a http://www.veypor.com/ performance monitor on your bike and see how the changes you make impact the performance of the bike. Vaper even has a setting that lets you test for things like improvement in rolling resistance! Kind of fun to do it you have that mind-set. Lots of V-rodders doing this sort of thing and even customizing settings in the ECM tables using a programmer (many available).
Any time you improve speed performance you also counter-balance by improving braking performance as well.
Also you can do things to reduce air drag on the motorcycle. Or reduce rolling resistance by moving to ceramic wheel bearings. There are performance spark plugs out there that can give you small gains. Even fuel injectors that are improved over HD OEM and provide better fuel atomization. Also synthetic oils lower the internal resistance of the the engine itself. When it comes to performance these small steps to better performance are additive.
You could also put a http://www.veypor.com/ performance monitor on your bike and see how the changes you make impact the performance of the bike. Vaper even has a setting that lets you test for things like improvement in rolling resistance! Kind of fun to do it you have that mind-set. Lots of V-rodders doing this sort of thing and even customizing settings in the ECM tables using a programmer (many available).
Any time you improve speed performance you also counter-balance by improving braking performance as well.