Jamie called....
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 14,670
Likes: 139
From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
2:1 - D&D Fatcat if you can deal with loud.
2:1:2 - Fullsac DX pipe and a set of Rinehart 4" slipons.
exhaust are about as subjective as oil threads are. but for performance, I think it's hard to beat the above.
Thread Starter
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,145
Likes: 6,168
From: SE Michigan
Keith,
Thanks for the info and to be honest this is exactly what I needed as far as info. I am looking at the 107 kit from Fuel Moto. I really like the sound and look of the true duals and heard of the performance loss because of such. Your numbers are exactly what I need to see to make my decision.
Although the HP looks low, the torque looks acceptable and that is really were it counts on a bagger. I had 120lbs at 3k rpm and 100hp stuck in my head with true duals. Looks like with the 107 kit I was looking at and another batch of money for the CNC heads will get me there. Darn this internet thing and budgets.
Is the sound and look of the true duals worth the performance hit in your eyes?
Thanks again
Thanks for the info and to be honest this is exactly what I needed as far as info. I am looking at the 107 kit from Fuel Moto. I really like the sound and look of the true duals and heard of the performance loss because of such. Your numbers are exactly what I need to see to make my decision.
Although the HP looks low, the torque looks acceptable and that is really were it counts on a bagger. I had 120lbs at 3k rpm and 100hp stuck in my head with true duals. Looks like with the 107 kit I was looking at and another batch of money for the CNC heads will get me there. Darn this internet thing and budgets.
Is the sound and look of the true duals worth the performance hit in your eyes?
Thanks again
I was aware that duals would cost me a bit in performance, but I really wasnt really prepared for Jamie to recommend *against* ported heads with true duals. Had I been aware of that I might have stuck with the Fullsac setup, but at the time I changed to true duals a 107 kit was not on my radar screen.
I was close to buying yet another exhaust setup - Jamies stainless 2-1, and also add ported heads but that would have put me over $5K and at some point you just have to stop. Jamie was out of his stainless 2-1 and I took it as a sign.
So it goes to show you that planning ahead is valuable - in real terms: money and performance. If you're not able to or dont plan well, you wind up having to make decisions - do I spend more money to replace what I've already replaced once, is that additional money worth it, etc etc.
But as most things in life, things change and you cant always go on a straight predicted line.
And again, there are more things to my build than just numbers, and for me its also about reliability.
I could have saved about $1K by sticking with bored stock jugs and not refreshing the heads, but I wanted that reliability, and also the valve clatter is gone, so well worth it - *for me*
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 323
Likes: 5
From: MA
By all means I am no expert in the matter, just relaying what I hear.
Thread Starter
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,145
Likes: 6,168
From: SE Michigan
So if you're going with Dragos, get his setup, Fuel Moto, their 2-1, etc. They've likely been extensively tested together, and at least in Fuel Moto's case, a lot of design and performance testing went into his pipes.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 323
Likes: 5
From: MA
I have an 07 so my true duals are limited. But this info will surely help.I think when I get closer to pulling the trigger, I will call over there to see what they recommend on the true duals. I see the Supper Traps on sale for $381. Wonder how they will do.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 14,670
Likes: 139
From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Thanks again. I am hooked on the true dual sound as well. Read after I posted what was mentioned about the ported heads. Guess I can save on the heads and rest on numbers like you have. I have an 07 so my true duals are limited. But this info will surely help.
I think when I get closer to pulling the trigger, I will call over there to see what they recommend on the true duals. I see the Supper Traps on sale for $381. Wonder how they will do.
I have an 07 so my true duals are limited. But this info will surely help.I think when I get closer to pulling the trigger, I will call over there to see what they recommend on the true duals. I see the Supper Traps on sale for $381. Wonder how they will do.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 1,040
From: Seabrook, NH
I went from a Fullsac 2-1-2 to true duals entirely for the sound. I love the sound!
I was aware that duals would cost me a bit in performance, but I really wasnt really prepared for Jamie to recommend *against* ported heads with true duals. Had I been aware of that I might have stuck with the Fullsac setup, but at the time I changed to true duals a 107 kit was not on my radar screen.
I was close to buying yet another exhaust setup - Jamies stainless 2-1, and also add ported heads but that would have put me over $5K and at some point you just have to stop. Jamie was out of his stainless 2-1 and I took it as a sign.
So it goes to show you that planning ahead is valuable - in real terms: money and performance. If you're not able to or dont plan well, you wind up having to make decisions - do I spend more money to replace what I've already replaced once, is that additional money worth it, etc etc.
But as most things in life, things change and you cant always go on a straight predicted line.
And again, there are more things to my build than just numbers, and for me its also about reliability.
I could have saved about $1K by sticking with bored stock jugs and not refreshing the heads, but I wanted that reliability, and also the valve clatter is gone, so well worth it - *for me*
I was aware that duals would cost me a bit in performance, but I really wasnt really prepared for Jamie to recommend *against* ported heads with true duals. Had I been aware of that I might have stuck with the Fullsac setup, but at the time I changed to true duals a 107 kit was not on my radar screen.
I was close to buying yet another exhaust setup - Jamies stainless 2-1, and also add ported heads but that would have put me over $5K and at some point you just have to stop. Jamie was out of his stainless 2-1 and I took it as a sign.
So it goes to show you that planning ahead is valuable - in real terms: money and performance. If you're not able to or dont plan well, you wind up having to make decisions - do I spend more money to replace what I've already replaced once, is that additional money worth it, etc etc.
But as most things in life, things change and you cant always go on a straight predicted line.
And again, there are more things to my build than just numbers, and for me its also about reliability.
I could have saved about $1K by sticking with bored stock jugs and not refreshing the heads, but I wanted that reliability, and also the valve clatter is gone, so well worth it - *for me*
FYI... That torque curve would fit my riding style like a glove.
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Tourer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
after I scheduled my build I found out my Rinehart 2-1 develops a tourque dip in the 2k rpm range. I emailed Jamie and he said some rinehart 2-1 designs had this issue because of where the 2 pipes combine there is some blockage design in the pipe. Well after tearing mine down and inspecting it was determined mine was not that design so I got lucky you could say. I told Jamie before I left from dropping off the bike, if my pipe has that blockage to replace it with a pro-pipe, I didn't drive 4 hours one way to have a torque dip
My brother had his build with cobra tru dual heads and bassani slip ons. cobra tru dual heads are 1 3/4" straight through i believe and he cut his baffles down to about 7". his produced slightly more torque than mine and 6-7 hp less than mine. Identical builds otherwise. I think the design of the true duals that take a sharp bend out to the left side of the bike are just fine for making good power. MGS head pipes are the same way but i think they are stepped from 1 3/4"-1 7/8"-2" and they claim some fantastic gains
My brother had his build with cobra tru dual heads and bassani slip ons. cobra tru dual heads are 1 3/4" straight through i believe and he cut his baffles down to about 7". his produced slightly more torque than mine and 6-7 hp less than mine. Identical builds otherwise. I think the design of the true duals that take a sharp bend out to the left side of the bike are just fine for making good power. MGS head pipes are the same way but i think they are stepped from 1 3/4"-1 7/8"-2" and they claim some fantastic gains
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 323
Likes: 5
From: MA
something else to look into although I haven't had mine put on the dyno yet. The Rinehart Slimline Duals. It's not actually a dual but more of an "H" pipe. I put this on a couple of weeks ago and the very first thing I noticed was the equalization of sound and pressure at idle to be more like a true dual.