From what I've heard they moved the O2 sensors lower to get they farther away from the exhaust port because they were having frequent O2 sensor failure in the old location. I can't see any reason why they need moved much closer to the exhaust ports for the heat. If you use a IR temp gun your going to need one that goes greater than 500 degrees. The cat on my 10 pegs my IR gun out. I've been looking at the who mess and I have to call Fuelmoto and see about fitment of the new head pipe. If it will or can be made to fit easily I'm going to go that direction. I'm assuming that Fuelmoto has spent the time making sure there is no issue with where they are locating the new 12mm O2 sensors.

 

I was thinking 09 sensors and confusing the fact that the 2010 4 wires are electically heated and don't need to be in a heat zone. The 09 o2 were up high near the head, you are correct the 2010's 12mm 4 wire heated sensor's are in front of the cat. I believe I have it straight in my head now, I can leave the 12mm o2 sensors right where they are on the headpipe, they don't need to be heated since they are self heating.

This will keep the headpipe original looking when it goes back together. I am going to buy the SEPST and spend some time this winter with it. I am a little old to be going back to school but Harley makes you stay current. With the help of the fine people on this forum I will get this thing fixed.

Probably should not brainstorm or think outloud on the forum until I get it right but I think I will be ok with just leaving the o2's right where they are. Since they are self heating, any thoughts!

 

I bet you are correct also with fuelmotto thinking ahead on the sensors, the pipe will have the bungs for both the 09 and the 2010 o2 sensors I hear. I think they are in the positions they were in for their respective year. 19mm up high on the pipe closer to the cylinder as in 09 and the 12mm 4 wire heated down in front of where the cat would be,"if it had a Cat" as they are on the 2010's. If they have not changed their minds by now I don't know why they are putting the 09 19mm bungs in the pipe at all.

I can't see why anyone would replace an 09 headpipe since they don't have a cat.

 

I forget where I was on the forum... Touring, exhaust. Can't remember, but I saw Fuelmoto come back to someone else saying that the header for the TG was different than the FLHT. Two of us asked a followup and were told that due to extensive retooling that Fuelmoto wouldn't be making a head pipe for our TGs. I'll go through my posts and then come back here and link to that thread. OK here it is.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I had emailed them and they told me they were indevelopment and projected and Oct. release date. I quess when you count the number of Tri's out there as opposed to the other touring market it would be a lot of tooling expense for a low production unit.

I had already determined to do my original pipe, the fuelmotto would be to obvious and a dead give away. Of course the price is always a factor. It would have been nice for some guys to use the fuelmotto and have thier original to put back on if they broke something major and had to take it back to the dealer.

Thanks again for the info, I will go back and see if I can find my email and response. I am positive I asked about the Tri Glide pipe.

 

I called Fulemoto yesterday and the guy I 1st talked 2 said the head pipe would fit. I ask him if he was sure because the head pipe for the 2 wheel touring and the triglide where 2 different part numbers, and the triglide was longer. He went and ask Jamie who said it won't fit and they may look into it later on. I won't cut up the stock head pipe for a couple reasons. I don't care to replace it if I need to have it and the 2nd is when I look at the O2 sensor placement I can see how it could possibly get some cross talk between the sensors. I have thought about either getting the Fulemoto pipe and then having a muffler shop make the extension that I need on the right side or getting a 09 non cat head pipe and adding the O2 bungs to it. Looking at the pipe on my dads and mine I could locate the sensors farther apart from one and other which should minimize chances of cross talk, or at least I hope. I'm taking my time and going slow on this one because I don't care to toss money away chasing it. This is one reason I'm so pissed at Harley Davidson, I shouldn't have to be doing this but they care more to build the image and let the consumer fix the faults.

 

Yea! I guess we are all just brainstorming at this point, gathering information and bouncing things off each other. The 09 pipe with the add on bungs sounds practical. I will take a look at that and the price of course. We should have some good riding weather for another month down here and I won't be doing anything to mine until at least November. The Jagg 10 row and the Fan has helped but I fear the cooler weather has been more of a factor. It is loosening up and is probably getting less friction after the break in, I could live with it if it ran this cool in July and August. I have never seen the inside of the headpipe but if the material is solid and stable enough I plan to drill a series of small holes with most of them away from the o2 sensors leaving a little solid material in front of them to help prevent the cross talk. This is without knowing the stucture of the cat material or its makeup.

Of course this is just my thinking at the moment, it changes daily as new information comes in. If I were not confident I could take it apart and put it back together and make it look untouched I would not fool with it. Even if I get lucky as you said why should I have to and how many Tri Owners happen to be certified welders with the equipment and the expertise to do so. Not to mention having to buck the EPA, all states are not as far behind on the monitoring as East Ky. and most owners are going to shy away from this route. Harley has put us in an awkward, unpredictable and unessessary position. This is not what I wanted to buy when I plunked the money down for their product.

I am partially at fault for not researching the Trike a little further, had no warning Harley was going to hang a Cat on the Trike but should have known it was coming.

Harley could be working with us a little closer, they have a winner here but all the positive aspects of that Trike are going to be overshadowed by the negative of the underpowered, heat condition they built into an otherwise fine machine. The word of mouth will hurt sales on that Trike and one would think they would want to work with the people who bought one to help fix the problem instead of going into denial.

The reasonable things we can legally do, the fan, the Jagg 10 Row, the larger volume oil pan are within the normal mods most of us would do just to get a little extended engine life. Hell I do it to some of my offroad vehicles and high performance vehicles. Same thing, electric fan, high volume oil pan, trans cooler to help keep the heat load off the engine. I would not be complaining about making reasonable mods no more than the people who buy the pipes and the stage I for performance gains.

Harley however built into this machine a heat problem that is beyond the expertise of the average buyer to work around and that is where the success or failure of a procuct lays. The overall satisfaction with a product by the average buyer. Even if and when we get ours fixed the problems still out there will come back to haunt Harley.

 

I was really disappointed when I saw their answer. I bet if they sell a bunch of the headpipes for the rest of the touring line, they'll come take care of us too. But in the mean time this darn thing is HOT!!!

I also read some folk here and in other threads briefly talking about ceramic coatings. Has anyone given it any serious thought. My point of reference would be my 351C. I have Aussie heads which make 11.5:1. Lots of heat. I switched to ceramic coated headers because my painted headers were frying my starter and spark plug wires. After switching to ceramic, I could almost touch the primaries before I could feel any serious heat. It was, surprisingly, a big difference. I wonder if we would get the same benefit of throwing some jet hot or other baked on coating on the whole head pipe? Even if it was a 25% reduction, I wonder if it would make a difference. I bet the cat would work better too if the heat stayed in the header.

On another note, I saw some discussion earlier in this thread about making sure the O2 sensors stayed hot enough. I read somewhere that the 2010s are heated sensors, so does it really matter where they are in the pipe as long as they are upwind of the cat?

 

Part of my hang up with my 2010 besides the cat is it just doesn't run like my dads 09, his 09 will flat smoke my 10. I have to blame it on the exhaust changes between the 09 & 10 MY. If I would have known they were going to screw with it like they did for 2010 I would have bought a 2009, I could have had one back in May but figured 10 would have improvements over the 09. Boy was I wrong, the changes for 2010 was a step back in my book.

 

hey guys, i know this thread is about TG engine mods, but i wanted to chime in and say that i am doin a few mods to my engine, right now. i just dropped her off at the shop.

flow job on the heads, bumping up my ol' 88" to 95", S&S gear drive kit, Andrews H55 cams and Bassanni prostreet exhaust!

i'm gonna need wheelie bars on this bitch when i'm done! expecting me to break 100hp/100fpt easy. i hope their right! i need that power to move my big ***! haha...

albert