Stage 1 with just slip-ons?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: southeast PA
Get it in writing!
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
From: Mass
I was in a similar situation as the OP. Here is what I've learned;
The bikes are tuned lean at the factory in order to pass the EPA reg's here in the states. IDK if they tuned differently for export. Either way, changes to higher flow exhaust & air cleaner will improve airflow making the air/fuel mixture even leaner and requiring a tune to compensate. I have been told that just a pair of slip-ons will not make a drastic change, so that is what I have done... so far.
Put the slip-on V&H Eliminators (w quiet baffles) on my 2019 Deluxe without changing anything else. Love the sound and my butt dyno tells me that the low end is a bit stronger.
I am waiting for the warranty to expire before changing out the air cleaner (for an S&S), which will then require re-mapping the fuel system, probably with the FP3.
The dealership here told me what was stated in previous posts; any aftermarket tuning changes will void the warranty, via the tattletales.
He also revealed that the Screamin Eagle tuner is good for exclusively Screamin Eagle parts, "they have it very well dialed in" so that using the SE tuner with third party accessories will not be (fully) beneficial. Having said all of that, he did recommend the V&H FP3 tuner (which he doesn't sell) when I was ready.
The bikes are tuned lean at the factory in order to pass the EPA reg's here in the states. IDK if they tuned differently for export. Either way, changes to higher flow exhaust & air cleaner will improve airflow making the air/fuel mixture even leaner and requiring a tune to compensate. I have been told that just a pair of slip-ons will not make a drastic change, so that is what I have done... so far.
Put the slip-on V&H Eliminators (w quiet baffles) on my 2019 Deluxe without changing anything else. Love the sound and my butt dyno tells me that the low end is a bit stronger.
I am waiting for the warranty to expire before changing out the air cleaner (for an S&S), which will then require re-mapping the fuel system, probably with the FP3.
The dealership here told me what was stated in previous posts; any aftermarket tuning changes will void the warranty, via the tattletales.
He also revealed that the Screamin Eagle tuner is good for exclusively Screamin Eagle parts, "they have it very well dialed in" so that using the SE tuner with third party accessories will not be (fully) beneficial. Having said all of that, he did recommend the V&H FP3 tuner (which he doesn't sell) when I was ready.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 978
Likes: 423
From: UK
In the UK you won't invalidate the factory warranty with a tuner. It's a US thing. I used an FP3 on my fxfbs and now in my flsl. They don't have the piece of software on the dealership hook-ups that automatically notify the factory and invalidate the warranty. That said, if you do something aftermarket that then causes the problem, you should expect trouble.
The LRS is a 114, which comes stock with a high-flow air filter. You don't need to change it for a stage 1.
Stock M8s are lean. On all Softails apart from the fatbob (only the fatbob, I think), when you swap the slip ons, you are removing the cat. I'd expect this to increase the free flow effect of the exhaust, making the bike more lean. Whether the range of the ECU adjustment can cope with that, I don't know. I played safe on the fatbob. On my Slim (a 107 m8), I have decel pop, which meant a tuner was definitely needed (hasn't completely solved it though). So, my experience is, slip-ons do change how the engine runs (introduced decel pop on mine) and to minimise the risk of being over lean, a tuner is a good bet. Whether I would choose an FP3 again next time, not sure.
The LRS is a 114, which comes stock with a high-flow air filter. You don't need to change it for a stage 1.
Stock M8s are lean. On all Softails apart from the fatbob (only the fatbob, I think), when you swap the slip ons, you are removing the cat. I'd expect this to increase the free flow effect of the exhaust, making the bike more lean. Whether the range of the ECU adjustment can cope with that, I don't know. I played safe on the fatbob. On my Slim (a 107 m8), I have decel pop, which meant a tuner was definitely needed (hasn't completely solved it though). So, my experience is, slip-ons do change how the engine runs (introduced decel pop on mine) and to minimise the risk of being over lean, a tuner is a good bet. Whether I would choose an FP3 again next time, not sure.
Last edited by Mart; Sep 8, 2020 at 01:25 PM.
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Tourer
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 415
Likes: 125
From: London, England
Thanks, thats really helpful. I didnt realise the cat is in the mufflers.
Ive just had the dealer tell me today that the S&S 2>1 pipe is now going to be in stock in about 3 weeks but after all this discussion Im now thinking of just getting the slip-ons and a tuner. I prefer the sound, and it would save me about Ł1000.
However I probably prefer the looks of the S&S. So another question, what kind of real world performance difference will I notice with the S&S vs the slip-ons?
Im coming from 80 Evos so the 114 is already a monster by comparison. If the 2>1 is only likely to add a couple of hp then it may not be worth it for me.
Ive just had the dealer tell me today that the S&S 2>1 pipe is now going to be in stock in about 3 weeks but after all this discussion Im now thinking of just getting the slip-ons and a tuner. I prefer the sound, and it would save me about Ł1000.
However I probably prefer the looks of the S&S. So another question, what kind of real world performance difference will I notice with the S&S vs the slip-ons?
Im coming from 80 Evos so the 114 is already a monster by comparison. If the 2>1 is only likely to add a couple of hp then it may not be worth it for me.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 978
Likes: 423
From: UK
Touring model m8s are meant to run better than softails because of their longer exhausts. No experience of that. I've also heard 2 into 1s improve the flow vs 2-2. But, Ive never fancied them. With a stage 1, I've never noticed a performance improvement and the max is meant to be 2-3HP. In truth, I'd doubt you notice it. I change the slip-ons for the sound 😁👍.
A benefit of 2-1 is it would probably increase your flexibility for stage 2-4, if that's in your plans. Otherwise, more about looks / sound IMO. Happy to hear if that 's not the case from those with actual experience of both.
A benefit of 2-1 is it would probably increase your flexibility for stage 2-4, if that's in your plans. Otherwise, more about looks / sound IMO. Happy to hear if that 's not the case from those with actual experience of both.
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Tourer
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 415
Likes: 125
From: London, England
Thanks again thats a great help.
I was planning to do a stage 2 but Im already planning to get a Glide (or possibly Heritage) when my PCP is up. Long story (I discussed it in a previous thread) and I love the LRS but Ive come from slightly older bikes, wrenching on them etc and Ive just been totally sold on comfort and convenience now after my crash... I guess the Lowrider is a kind of gateway to more comfortable, tour equipped Harleys for me.
In fact I didnt realise the new Heritage has the 114 and a black engine coating. I live on the coast and one of the reasons I chose the LRS is that the black coatings are a lot easier to look after with the salt-air.
long story short I dont want to pour heaps of money into stage 2 and beyond when I am only likely to keep the bike for a couple of years.
I think Im going to just go with the slip-ons and continue enjoying the bike.
I was planning to do a stage 2 but Im already planning to get a Glide (or possibly Heritage) when my PCP is up. Long story (I discussed it in a previous thread) and I love the LRS but Ive come from slightly older bikes, wrenching on them etc and Ive just been totally sold on comfort and convenience now after my crash... I guess the Lowrider is a kind of gateway to more comfortable, tour equipped Harleys for me.
In fact I didnt realise the new Heritage has the 114 and a black engine coating. I live on the coast and one of the reasons I chose the LRS is that the black coatings are a lot easier to look after with the salt-air.
long story short I dont want to pour heaps of money into stage 2 and beyond when I am only likely to keep the bike for a couple of years.
I think Im going to just go with the slip-ons and continue enjoying the bike.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 978
Likes: 423
From: UK
I may go the same way in a few years, thinking Road King. I have to ride across a causeway that floods with the tide. ACF 50 is my friend, even on the chrome. Quick spray after every other wash. The worst stuff is the alloy engine casings and forks on my Royal Enfield 500. Even with ACF 50, they need a metal polish every 3 or 4 months.
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