apparently I screwed myself
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
Plus it was my understanding you can't dyno tune with PV4. Yes you are looking for canned tune, but you can't unlock for dyno. You are always hosed early adopting anything. You are the guinea pig.
Plus, don't know why you can't return to DynoJet. They can unmarried it. Return it for a PV-3B. 🤷
Plus, don't know why you can't return to DynoJet. They can unmarried it. Return it for a PV-3B. 🤷
1. they can dyno tune a gen 2 M8 with a PV3 with the Andrews 485
2. They can do it sometime in the near future
Plus it was my understanding you can't dyno tune with PV4. Yes you are looking for canned tune, but you can't unlock for dyno. You are always hosed early adopting anything. You are the guinea pig.
Plus, don't know why you can't return to DynoJet. They can unmarried it. Return it for a PV-3B. 🤷
Plus, don't know why you can't return to DynoJet. They can unmarried it. Return it for a PV-3B. 🤷
Last edited by $tonecold; Jun 25, 2025 at 07:51 PM.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
If they will let you return it, just return it for a refund. Then get a MasterTune BT. While your at it, buy the TTS185 cam, it was developed especially for the Gen2's. Then you can get everything running fine, but not matter what cam you run, expect to lose some low end torque because of your pipes. You might not even notice it when you're riding.
Plus my andrews 485 would then just be a decoration
The andrews dyno looks even better (to me). that torque is where I live, in the low to mid rpm, and a much flatter curve, Not quite as high peak torque but very close and much flatter
thats a log and expensive path to follow.
As a side question, whats wrong with my exhaust anyway? Its a good pipe
I think if I cant get a dyno tune (with any tuner) my path is gonna either be to reinstall the stock cam and run the stage 1 setup until my cam is supported, and then put it back in
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,143
Likes: 11,211
From: San Diego, CA
You appear to have gone full speed ahead with mods on your new bike, without first checking/learning how the aftermarket tuning world works... As you found out, the word "supported" does not mean full service. You were planning on making mods, then flashing a tune for those mods. That takes time when a new ECM is introduced.
I would be very disappointed too, if I were in your shoes.
I'm not an M8 owner, but I believe this scenario has played out maybe three times since M8 engine was introduced. It sucks, but it's the way of the world now if you want to use non HD parts & tunes. (ie: non EPA compliant)
The game goes like this:
HD changes their ECM, and tightens security on their ECM. The aftermarket scrambles to figure out how to gain access, and then tune the new ECM with their products.
HD does not support them. They are on their own...
It takes time to crack the code to gain access to the new ECM.
It takes time to set up their tuners to be able to work on the new ECM.
Then the it takes a lot of time to build a library of tunes for the new ECM.
I'm sorry I missed that you have the PV4. I stopped following the new PowerVision tuner versions in recent years. I have their full service tuner and wouldn't want anything less.
I might be wrong, as I haven't researched it for myself, but I still think with a full service tuner that has access to the GEN2 M8 ECM, a good tuner (person) can tune your new bike with your mods.
Good luck finding out what you need/should do for your situation..
Keep us posted on what you find out and the process you eventually need to go through.
You have a good bike. I have confidence you will eventually make it a great performing motorcycle...
I would be very disappointed too, if I were in your shoes.
I'm not an M8 owner, but I believe this scenario has played out maybe three times since M8 engine was introduced. It sucks, but it's the way of the world now if you want to use non HD parts & tunes. (ie: non EPA compliant)
The game goes like this:
HD changes their ECM, and tightens security on their ECM. The aftermarket scrambles to figure out how to gain access, and then tune the new ECM with their products.
HD does not support them. They are on their own...
It takes time to crack the code to gain access to the new ECM.
It takes time to set up their tuners to be able to work on the new ECM.
Then the it takes a lot of time to build a library of tunes for the new ECM.
I'm sorry I missed that you have the PV4. I stopped following the new PowerVision tuner versions in recent years. I have their full service tuner and wouldn't want anything less.
I might be wrong, as I haven't researched it for myself, but I still think with a full service tuner that has access to the GEN2 M8 ECM, a good tuner (person) can tune your new bike with your mods.
Good luck finding out what you need/should do for your situation..
Keep us posted on what you find out and the process you eventually need to go through.
You have a good bike. I have confidence you will eventually make it a great performing motorcycle...
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 671
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,143
Likes: 11,211
From: San Diego, CA
In CA, they stay open by installing EPA approved parts, using EPA approved tuners, and with EPA approved tunes... Kind of like the HD dealers are doing with their EPA approved stuff.
I know of two shops that were really good "speed shops" that got shut down by CARB. One reinvented itself, managed to stay in business, but doesn't do engine mods (outside EPA parameters) anymore.
I was given the name of a couple shops that won't discuss their engine building or mods over the phone. When I went into one of them in person to inquire about dyno tuning, they made me feel like an undercover narc trying to buy dope...
I know there are some shops out there, but I'm kind of a lone wolf when it comes to working and modding my bikes. I'm not part of the "in crowd" with access to the CA shops trying to tune under the radar...
Thats a nice looking dyno, but to get there Id have to buy a new cam AND buy a new tuner AND do all the install work again AND trailer it somewhere and pay for the dyno tuning.
Plus my andrews 485 would then just be a decoration
The andrews dyno looks even better (to me). that torque is where I live, in the low to mid rpm, and a much flatter curve, Not quite as high peak torque but very close and much flatter
thats a log and expensive path to follow.
As a side question, whats wrong with my exhaust anyway? Its a good pipe
I think if I cant get a dyno tune (with any tuner) my path is gonna either be to reinstall the stock cam and run the stage 1 setup until my cam is supported, and then put it back in.
Plus my andrews 485 would then just be a decoration
The andrews dyno looks even better (to me). that torque is where I live, in the low to mid rpm, and a much flatter curve, Not quite as high peak torque but very close and much flatter
thats a log and expensive path to follow.
As a side question, whats wrong with my exhaust anyway? Its a good pipe
I think if I cant get a dyno tune (with any tuner) my path is gonna either be to reinstall the stock cam and run the stage 1 setup until my cam is supported, and then put it back in.
Now let's look at these two dyno sheets.
The TTS185 run is starting at 1900 rpm. At that rpm it is making about 122 ft/lb of tq. The Andrews 485 dyno is starting at about 2200 rpm and it is making about 103 ft/lb of tq. By 2200 rpm the TTS185 is making 125 ft/lb of tq. The Andrews cam doesn't get to 122 ft/lbs until about 2500 rpm. At 2500 rpm the TTS185 is making 128 ft/lb. The Andrews maxes at 134 ft/lb at 3440 rpm while the TTS is making that torque at 3100 and goes on to max 139.6 ft/lb at 3950 rpm. So in the low to mid rpm range where you like to ride, the TTS actually did do better. Now you must consider the TTS185 was in a Gen2 motor and the Andrews 485 wasn't, so that could account for some of it.
I'm not dissing your pipes. Pipes are usually a trade off between looks, sound, and performance. Like I said, the pipes you bought might be alright, but they might cost a bit of the low end if they are too open. But they will look and sound good.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 8,515
From: Bates County MO
Remember the sheets you guys are looking at are Touring Models. Take a few points off for softails- dual counter balancers and less exhaust volume changes the numbers and shape of the curve.
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
I dont blame anyone but myself, but in my defense I will say that my previous experience, which informed my recent choices, was 16 years ago when I bought my 2009 Fat Boy.
I immediately bought all the "stuff" I wanted, along with a Power Commander III, stuffed it all in the bike and it worked right out of the box. No muss, no fuss.
Result was that I thought thats how these things worked, so I just did the same thing expecting the same outcome
Add in the fact that DynoJet announced the PV4 supports the Gen2, with no caveats about cams, and presto!
Here I am
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania