apparently I screwed myself
Cruiser
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 227
Likes: 133
From: California
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
almost 61 here. Its not about physical age. its about wanting to retire eventually, which will prohibit buying really expensive toys 
I rode my last Fat Boy for 16 years.
If I go that same distance again I'll be pushing 80. I work out a lot for the last 40 years straight, and eat right (mostly). I quit drinking and using drugs almost 30 years ago, and I quit smoking cigarettes 8 years ago.
My health is good so I think I have a good shot at still being alive and kicking at 80, but nothing is certain. Its probably safe to assume I wont be shopping for any brand new Fat Boys for model year 2042
I rode my last Fat Boy for 16 years.
If I go that same distance again I'll be pushing 80. I work out a lot for the last 40 years straight, and eat right (mostly). I quit drinking and using drugs almost 30 years ago, and I quit smoking cigarettes 8 years ago.
My health is good so I think I have a good shot at still being alive and kicking at 80, but nothing is certain. Its probably safe to assume I wont be shopping for any brand new Fat Boys for model year 2042
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 592
Likes: 481
From: SE PA
Dave at JDs and Chuck at Throttle City have both tuned multiple bikes for me.
Dave has a long wait time for a reason. I will say that both guys have had my bikes running very well. One is more expensive and puts more time into the tuning process. My more basic builds have gone to Chuck. My more extensive ones go to Dave. Given you dont want to lose out on the riding season, makes sense to use Chuck. If you want it to be all that it can be, wait and go to Dave.
Dave has a long wait time for a reason. I will say that both guys have had my bikes running very well. One is more expensive and puts more time into the tuning process. My more basic builds have gone to Chuck. My more extensive ones go to Dave. Given you dont want to lose out on the riding season, makes sense to use Chuck. If you want it to be all that it can be, wait and go to Dave.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 671
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
Just got off the horn with Throttle City guy and it seems like he can indeed help me. I just have to wait until dynojet or fuel moto come out with a base map that includes a cam.
Doesnt even need to be the right cam. Just needs something in there that he can work with.
Hope on the horizon, but it looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks at least. July is friggin hot and I dont ride a lot when its super hot anyway.
Doesnt even need to be the right cam. Just needs something in there that he can work with.
Hope on the horizon, but it looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks at least. July is friggin hot and I dont ride a lot when its super hot anyway.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
Based on what I've read and heard about the Gen 2 M8, that doesn't seem like a reasonable statement.
I think its not binary, where you either know how to tune or dont know how to tune, and if you know how to tune you can tune anything.
Seems theres a lot of different places in between those two extremes.
I think its not binary, where you either know how to tune or dont know how to tune, and if you know how to tune you can tune anything.
Seems theres a lot of different places in between those two extremes.
Last edited by chunks; Jun 26, 2025 at 11:03 AM.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
Me either, but admittedly while I do have a high level grasp of what dyno tuning does, I dont know squat about how it does it.
I'm a Sr UNIX Systems engineer by profession. I've developed a lot of applications by first taking something that already exists and modifying it to suit my needs,
which is very different than than creating it from scratch. Unless you have something in the ballpark to start with, you're just taking wild guesses at the values you need.
Of course the developers that created the original maps and databases could do it in their sleep, the rest of the world is just starting to crack that code cuz the developers aren't going to share
This is how I'm interpreting what I'm hearing from him. Am I right? who knows
The ECU is a computer, and the ignition timing, air/fuel maps, etc are all stored in tables in a database there somewhere and to modify them you need the right tools and the right skills.
Each generation of the ECU is a different animal (new operating system), and they are still working to crack the Gen 2 ECU
Thats my interpretation, based on limited knowledge
I'm a Sr UNIX Systems engineer by profession. I've developed a lot of applications by first taking something that already exists and modifying it to suit my needs,
which is very different than than creating it from scratch. Unless you have something in the ballpark to start with, you're just taking wild guesses at the values you need.
Of course the developers that created the original maps and databases could do it in their sleep, the rest of the world is just starting to crack that code cuz the developers aren't going to share
This is how I'm interpreting what I'm hearing from him. Am I right? who knows
The ECU is a computer, and the ignition timing, air/fuel maps, etc are all stored in tables in a database there somewhere and to modify them you need the right tools and the right skills.
Each generation of the ECU is a different animal (new operating system), and they are still working to crack the Gen 2 ECU
Thats my interpretation, based on limited knowledge
Last edited by chunks; Jun 26, 2025 at 11:51 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,462
Likes: 619
I know you have no way of knowing this, but Lonewolf is a very experienced (retired) tuner. The only reason I can see him wanting to start from a base map is to save time. If he has access to the ECM he can tune it.
Zach
Zach
Me either, but admittedly while I do have a high level grasp of what dyno tuning does, I dont know squat about how it does it.
I'm a Sr UNIX Systems engineer by profession. I've developed a lot of applications by first taking something that already exists and modifying it to suit my needs,
which is very different than than creating it from scratch. Unless you have something in the ballpark to start with, you're just taking wild guesses at the values you need.
Of course the developers that created the original maps and databases could do it in their sleep, the rest of the world is just starting to crack that code cuz the developers aren't going to share
This is how I'm interpreting what I'm hearing from him. Am I right? who knows
The ECU is a computer, and the ignition timing, air/fuel maps, etc are all stored in tables in a database there somewhere and to modify them you need the right tools and the right skills.
Each generation of the ECU is a different animal (new operating system), and they are still working to crack the Gen 2 ECU
Thats my interpretation, based on limited knowledge
I'm a Sr UNIX Systems engineer by profession. I've developed a lot of applications by first taking something that already exists and modifying it to suit my needs,
which is very different than than creating it from scratch. Unless you have something in the ballpark to start with, you're just taking wild guesses at the values you need.
Of course the developers that created the original maps and databases could do it in their sleep, the rest of the world is just starting to crack that code cuz the developers aren't going to share
This is how I'm interpreting what I'm hearing from him. Am I right? who knows
The ECU is a computer, and the ignition timing, air/fuel maps, etc are all stored in tables in a database there somewhere and to modify them you need the right tools and the right skills.
Each generation of the ECU is a different animal (new operating system), and they are still working to crack the Gen 2 ECU
Thats my interpretation, based on limited knowledge
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Just got off the horn with Throttle City guy and it seems like he can indeed help me. I just have to wait until dynojet or fuel moto come out with a base map that includes a cam.
Doesnt even need to be the right cam. Just needs something in there that he can work with.
Hope on the horizon, but it looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks at least. July is friggin hot and I dont ride a lot when its super hot anyway.
Doesnt even need to be the right cam. Just needs something in there that he can work with.
Hope on the horizon, but it looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks at least. July is friggin hot and I dont ride a lot when its super hot anyway.
Intake: 11° ATDC/19° ABDC
Exhaust: 47° BBDC/15° BTDC
TDC Lift: .044"/.044"
He should be able to go from this. If he needs something more, you can pay FuelMoto for access to their data base to download the map for a Low Rider ST. Here are the specs for that cam.
If he can build it from a map for an aftermarket cam, he should be able to build it from a map for the cam that comes in it or an LRST.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
My answer is the same either way. He stated that he doesn't understand why the guy needs a map, and I presented a theory (making it clear that I'm just guessing) based on my experience as an IT systems engineer, which is pretty much the same thing you just said. Saves time from having to come up with it from scratch