6-speed
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 802
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RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: JamieWG
If you don't like it, then don't buy one. Harley is up front about it all. The new transmission is buttery smooth. I love mine. It's the inner primary bearing that will be replaced.
If you don't like it, then don't buy one. Harley is up front about it all. The new transmission is buttery smooth. I love mine. It's the inner primary bearing that will be replaced.
Comes with the territory. I actually do like the overall redesign of the Dyna, it has lots of upside. I just think HD took a big step back on the tranny. Hopefully SE or Baker will have an aftermarket solution for the new case design. I know one will be in the works at Baker within the couple of years. And believe it or not, the older transmission is pretty darn smooth shifting transmission in its own right. They got it right with that setup.
ORIGINAL: JamieWG
Where have you gathered this info from? You got some inside contacts with HD manufacturing, or you just taking your best guess?
Where have you gathered this info from? You got some inside contacts with HD manufacturing, or you just taking your best guess?
Banned
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 802
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From:
RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: jhampshire
Take a look at asking and selling prices on the 1999-2000 Twin Cam Harleys. To this day they sell for $1500-$3000 less than they should. The reason is the BEARINGS in the TC 88 failed at a rate higher than they should. People should not be afraid of the early Twin Cams, especially since any bearing failures would have been addressed five years ago, but buyers are still afraid to take a chance. I predict the same for 2006 Dyna models, even though they may all fixed before the 2007's are out. Having said all of that, why do we need a 6 speed? Why not a 7 or 8 speed? I know there is good reason for some, but I sometimes get tired of going through the five that I have. Multi speed transmissions are for ying ying bikes with a narrow torque band. One answer is lower revs at highway speeds, but that can be addressed with the final drive ratio and changes in the gear ratios in 1st through 4th gears. Top gear is still a 1:1 ratio through the transmission so all they did is changed the final drive ratio to drop revs, and added an extra low gear 1st to compensate for torque loss due to the final drive ratio change. H-D says the new box is quieter than the old one. How in hell can you hear your transmission if you have on proper pipes? My 2002 Dyna is the best shifting bike I have ever had and I have had several. I can count missed shifts on the fingers of one hand after 5000 miles. Neutral is between 2nd and 1st; every time. If there is anything that needs fixing on the Dyna, it is not the transmission. How about the SEAT!
Take a look at asking and selling prices on the 1999-2000 Twin Cam Harleys. To this day they sell for $1500-$3000 less than they should. The reason is the BEARINGS in the TC 88 failed at a rate higher than they should. People should not be afraid of the early Twin Cams, especially since any bearing failures would have been addressed five years ago, but buyers are still afraid to take a chance. I predict the same for 2006 Dyna models, even though they may all fixed before the 2007's are out. Having said all of that, why do we need a 6 speed? Why not a 7 or 8 speed? I know there is good reason for some, but I sometimes get tired of going through the five that I have. Multi speed transmissions are for ying ying bikes with a narrow torque band. One answer is lower revs at highway speeds, but that can be addressed with the final drive ratio and changes in the gear ratios in 1st through 4th gears. Top gear is still a 1:1 ratio through the transmission so all they did is changed the final drive ratio to drop revs, and added an extra low gear 1st to compensate for torque loss due to the final drive ratio change. H-D says the new box is quieter than the old one. How in hell can you hear your transmission if you have on proper pipes? My 2002 Dyna is the best shifting bike I have ever had and I have had several. I can count missed shifts on the fingers of one hand after 5000 miles. Neutral is between 2nd and 1st; every time. If there is anything that needs fixing on the Dyna, it is not the transmission. How about the SEAT!
The early Twin cam engines did have the superior timken crank bearings. They used them from 99'-02'. In 03' up through the current 06' models HD again went supercheap and put a POS roller bearing on the left case half. To convert back to the HD timken bearing is going to cost a customer about $200-$400 depending on who does the job. But it really is necessary if you want a trouble free, WORRY FREE setup.
I agree with all your transmission assesments, I feel the same way. I think 5 gears is all thats needed with the twin cam's powerband. The only way a 6th gear should be added is if its a true OD setup with a gear reduction of less than 1:1.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
RE: 6-speed
Yep!
When I had the gear drive conversion done, they found the two inside bearings were different from each other and the cheap type. I spent the extra money and now it has torrington bearings in the cam chest.
When I stroke my motor, I also will go to the TIMKEN crank bearing setup as well. Just fixing the weak links!
joe
When I had the gear drive conversion done, they found the two inside bearings were different from each other and the cheap type. I spent the extra money and now it has torrington bearings in the cam chest.
When I stroke my motor, I also will go to the TIMKEN crank bearing setup as well. Just fixing the weak links!
joe
Banned
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 802
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From:
RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: traveler
Yep!
When I had the gear drive conversion done, they found the two inside bearings were different from each other and the cheap type. I spent the extra money and now it has torrington bearings in the cam chest.
When I stroke my motor, I also will go to the TIMKEN crank bearing setup as well. Just fixing the weak links!
joe
Yep!
When I had the gear drive conversion done, they found the two inside bearings were different from each other and the cheap type. I spent the extra money and now it has torrington bearings in the cam chest.
When I stroke my motor, I also will go to the TIMKEN crank bearing setup as well. Just fixing the weak links!
joe
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,471
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: 6-speed
Y'know, I'm still havin' problems adapting to the 5 gears in my Sloptail. It's a suicide clutch/handshift, but 5 is just too many for my po' ol' brain! I was perfectly happy with the 3 & reverse on my '78 FLH.
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 858
Likes: 1
From: Upstate NY / San Clemente CA
RE: 6-speed
HD is going to do the 15K bearing inspection/replacement for free. Now, I am not to sure exactly what the problemis, but is it something that they can eventually fix? Meaning, at some time in the future, you would bring it in for the 15K, and they would FIX it for good? Or is it for ever and ever? As far as performance, the six speed is great. I only go to 6th on the highway cruising at 75 plus. Back roads at 55 is fine in 5th gear. The only engine upgrades I have done, and all I plan to do is the stage 1. I may ne wrong, but I feel with proper maintenance this bike will last a very long time. If something does go in the future internally with the motor, then I will worry about the highspeed bearings and all that. Until then, follow the maint schedule and enjoy it. Its not like I am happy about the fact that thereis a potential tranny problem, but I do know that its under warranty. I love everything else about the new dyna, I love WGs, and I wanted a brand new one. I love the bike, and I guess that is all that matters.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 631
Likes: 6
From: Indiana
RE: 6-speed
I would assume that yes, once the "beta" testing we're all doing for them is done with they will have an established "fix" if one is actually needed. Thing is at this point nobody even has 15K on an 06 model yet to know if there will even need to be anything replaced. People are freaking out about nothing at this point.
And for all those people who say that 5 is enough or shifting 6 times is too much...what the heck are you even doing on a bike???? Shifting is what makes riding them so much fun. If shifting bothers you go buy Honda Accord and have a great day.
And for all those people who say that 5 is enough or shifting 6 times is too much...what the heck are you even doing on a bike???? Shifting is what makes riding them so much fun. If shifting bothers you go buy Honda Accord and have a great day.
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Banned
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 802
Likes: 3
From:
RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: PowerCobra98
I would assume that yes, once the "beta" testing we're all doing for them is done with they will have an established "fix" if one is actually needed. Thing is at this point nobody even has 15K on an 06 model yet to know if there will even need to be anything replaced. People are freaking out about nothing at this point.
And for all those people who say that 5 is enough or shifting 6 times is too much...what the heck are you even doing on a bike???? Shifting is what makes riding them so much fun. If shifting bothers you go buy Honda Accord and have a great day.
I would assume that yes, once the "beta" testing we're all doing for them is done with they will have an established "fix" if one is actually needed. Thing is at this point nobody even has 15K on an 06 model yet to know if there will even need to be anything replaced. People are freaking out about nothing at this point.
And for all those people who say that 5 is enough or shifting 6 times is too much...what the heck are you even doing on a bike???? Shifting is what makes riding them so much fun. If shifting bothers you go buy Honda Accord and have a great day.
As for the shaft bearing, just the fact that HD wants customers to bring in the bike for bearing replacement shows that there is a problem in the design(probably one that cant be fixed with an upgraded bearing also). They are just trying to cover their butts before customers start calling the dealerships in droves on warrenty issues with their transmissions. I bet you HD will come out soon with a redesigned "cruisedrive" transmission, I can almost garentee they have their engineers on the drawingboard again.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 631
Likes: 6
From: Indiana
RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
Shifting is fun, but shifting too many times gets tiring over time, especially when your not taking advantage of the engines powerband fully. I think I stand for alot of people here, but HD really didnt need to add a 6 speed transmission that still doesnt have an OD. What they should have done was add a 6 speed with an OD setup. Add HD did was move the 1:1 5th gear to 6th gear and overdrive the primary to move 6th gear up a bit higher to act as a cruising gear. Basically a cheap version of Baker's DD6(which is the one Baker product I have never liked). Unfortunately you dont get the benefit of true rpm gear reduction like an OD as you increase speed in that final 6th gear.
As for the shaft bearing, just the fact that HD wants customers to bring in the bike for bearing replacement shows that there is a problem in the design(probably one that cant be fixed with an upgraded bearing also). They are just trying to cover their butts before customers start calling the dealerships in droves on warrenty issues with their transmissions. I bet you HD will come out soon with a redesigned "cruisedrive" transmission, I can almost garentee they have their engineers on the drawingboard again.
Shifting is fun, but shifting too many times gets tiring over time, especially when your not taking advantage of the engines powerband fully. I think I stand for alot of people here, but HD really didnt need to add a 6 speed transmission that still doesnt have an OD. What they should have done was add a 6 speed with an OD setup. Add HD did was move the 1:1 5th gear to 6th gear and overdrive the primary to move 6th gear up a bit higher to act as a cruising gear. Basically a cheap version of Baker's DD6(which is the one Baker product I have never liked). Unfortunately you dont get the benefit of true rpm gear reduction like an OD as you increase speed in that final 6th gear.
As for the shaft bearing, just the fact that HD wants customers to bring in the bike for bearing replacement shows that there is a problem in the design(probably one that cant be fixed with an upgraded bearing also). They are just trying to cover their butts before customers start calling the dealerships in droves on warrenty issues with their transmissions. I bet you HD will come out soon with a redesigned "cruisedrive" transmission, I can almost garentee they have their engineers on the drawingboard again.
Plus you obviously know more about mechanics than I do so I have to take your word on all of your bearing statements and such.
All I'm saying is that 6 is 6 and 5 is 5. If you want 5 don't buy a Dyna. If you don't want to shift get off the bike. Many with the 06 Dyna's will tell you as well that you don't even have to shift into 6th if you don't want to, it's there if you want to though.
True enough that releasing a new bike and asking me to sign a paper saying that something might fail is kind of hard to fathom but that's exactly what happened. Can't say I understand why a new product would even be released if there was the potential for a big problem! Sounds counter productive to me at the very least. However, the fact that they (HD) stated up front that there was a potential issue AND if such issue were to arise that they would replace it for free, OVER THE COURSE OF THE BIKE'S LIFE unless a permanent fix was found then that's enough for me to say OK I'll buy the bike. How many other vehicle manufacturers do you know have made a customer statement like that? None, period...it just doesn't happen. That's why they have 3 year warranty's because they're banking on all major ($$$) problems occuring after that time and when/if they do it doesn't have to come off of their bottom line but instead the customers pocket. At least HD is covering this forever....to me that sounds like a fair deal.