First off, I apologize if my posts have offended anyone. I feel there is no reason to bash the new 6-speed and it annoys me when I read misinformation being spread here (what I consider to be misinformation). When it comes to HDs, I've found this forum to be the best source of knowledge on the net. I hate to see that pool of info become tainted. If someone has the opinion that the new 6-speed is no good, I've got no problem with that. When they make statements that are unfounded, I get riled up. In the future I will no longer respond.

Before I bought my bike I did some research on the 6-speed. It was all done on the net, and if you want to learn about gears, you can do it too. Here is what I learned - When straight cut gears are engaged, all forces are applied to one tooth on each gear. When helical cut gears are engaged, depending on the angle of the teeth, the forces are distributed between 1.2 - 1.9 teeth per gear. This means, given equal materials, the helical cut gears can carry a heavier load. The trade off for that extra strength is thrust loads. The gears try to move away from each other, sort of like a screw turning out of a bolt. Helical cut gears are also quieter and the general consensus seems to be that they provide smoother shifting.

HD states the new 6-speed is able to carry 28% more torque than previous transmissions. I don't know what kind of steel the new gears are made of, but considering that helical cut gears have more than one tooth engaged, plus, the cases were beefed up to handle the additional thrust loads, I see no reason to doubt the 28% claim.

I also see a lot of claims about there being no difference in the final drive ratio of a 5-speed/6-speed. HD states that, at 70 mph, the 6-speed turns about 200 rpm less than the 5-speed. I've got a friend with a 2001 DWG, another with a 2005 DWG and another with a 2002 FXST. When I got my bike, they were all interested in checking it out. We traded bikes during a run and they all commented on how there is a noticable difference in engine speed at 75 mph. I could tell the difference too. Two of them are now looking into upgrading to the SE 6-Speed. None of the bikes have tachs, so I can't post actual rpm data. For these reasons, I've got no reason to doubt HDs claim about the rpms at 70 mph.

I also found that just about every vehicle manufacturer is using helical cut gears, and have been doing so for a long time. Chevy, Ford, BMW, Honda, etc... bikes, cars, boats, trucks. Someone in the Navy even stated that the huge turbine on a battleship uses helical cut gears. This doesn't mean that helical cut gears are better than straight cut, it just means that the technology exists to successfully use these gears and it's pretty common. There is no reason to believe that HD cannot successfully design and manufacture these gearsets.

None of this is a knock on straight cut gears or the 5-speed tranny. Straight cut gears are still used for a lot of things and the 5-speed is pretty much a flawless transmission. Did HD switch to helical to save money? I don't know. It would seem to me that they already had the tooling and design in place to manufacture transmissions with straight cut gears. Maybe they saved money by using cheaper steel to make the new gears, since the helical design offers additional strength, thus cheaper materials could be used? The cases are heavier, so that might eat up any savings on gear material? Maybe the EPA noise regs forced them into quieter gearsets? First and fifth gear are still straight cut in the new tranny, so this would probably negate any noise savings. You have to decide this for yourself. No one that I know works as an engineer for HD, nor has anyone done metallurgy tests on the steel. I believe them when they say the tranny can carry 28% more torque.

Now, someone will mention the 15,000 mile bearing change, so here are my thoughts on that, and the reasons why I bought a bike with the new tranny: HD

 

So much for injecting some rationality into the thread...

Everyone keeps jumping on the bandwagon to hammer at MegaHDman, on the theory that he's bashing Harleys. He's not, he's making a critical evaluation based on technical information. He has said previously that he's not a fan of the tranny, but his final judgement is reserved for the high mileage cases...let time tell the tale. That one gets skipped, everybody wants to jump him because he says he thinks the move was a mistake. I don't get it, people act like he's slamming their children. His posts tell their own tale, if anybody would take the time to evaluate them. He uses technical information to back up his stance. Right or wrong, he's using solid verifiable information to support his claims, not emotional attachment.

I am by no means saying everyone should agree with him, I'm just saying that his technical claims are rarely adressed when debating with him. He has a brash and aggressive posting style, and posts with confidence on his area of expertise, and that grates on some people. Understandable. Still doesn't make him a Harley-Hater.

As to the whole "engineering" bit. I certainly do not hold the opinion that an engineer holds the magic wand, or is more capable of evaluating a platform than a technician. That's the worst sort of educational elitism, and leads to soft-minded acceptance of everything coming out of the Ivory Tower. Nor do I think the MoCo has a strangle-hold on the best people. Critical thinking demands an honest evaluation of everything. Since I am not an engineer, I consult several different sources to get a solid answer on an issue. Some engineers, some technicians, and some just street-level joes. Seems to allow for the best assessment.

Lester, not sure why you would expect a man to give up all his business info for internet consumption when your profile is barren of anything. No objection to an empty profile, big believer in protecting your privacy, just don't think it's reasonable to ask a man for his vitals when you're not willing to pony up your own.

In the end, really not trying to start a fight here, trying to head one off. I value the diverse opinions, they are of assisstance in my own critical evaluations, and I don't much like the notion that we're going to hammer down any diversity that touches a nerve.

Enjoy the ride.

 

JamieWG, I was writing my previous post while you were writing yours, so it looks like I'm responding to your latest. I wasn't. I appreciate your latest post, it delineates why you have the confidence you do. Thanks for posting.

Enjoy the ride.

 

I may have to put my foot in my mouth about this later, but don't the '06 sportsters have helical gears too as well as all the V-Rods?

 

Don't know about the V-Rods, as I don't go there. I'm an elitist snob! Have seen some pics of the Sporty gears and at least some were helical. I wouldn't buy a new Sporty, either. Not because of helical gears, but because they took away the trapdoor in the tranny.

Hey, that's two new subjects: Why V-Rods ain't "real" HDs, and why the new Sporties suck! (For those who don't know me, or those who can't or won't read between the lines, the previous was tongue-in-cheek.) (For those who don't know what tongue-in-cheek means, buy a dictionary.)

 

Well for one thing here, I'm not the one who is in question of anything, and not trying to argue a point with anyone either.I have however filled in my profile being that it seems to have bothered you some for whatever reason you make reference to it. Asking for someones business info could sometimes be referred to as free advertising. I was reading through the posts from mega and realized the he takes a few different approaches in his replies like "he gets the overflow from other dealers"?? Now I have a hard time believing that the HD dealers with their overhead would give anything to an outside source at all even with a good understanding of how business works. Then states "he is the boss and can sit in front of a computer" and then states in "his garage, he has 2 trans waiting for pics" . Does he work out of his garage or is he a business with a storefront of sorts, when he previously spoke of something different .. I was simply wondering if he can validate his "business" with some info like a web page or even an address, a name ,or anything for that matter which may bring him some business in the long run, nothing more or less, but I see that he cleverly skipped over that post and answered the others . That leads me to a conclusion of other sorts here. Most business people would be only too happy to furnish a business name or contact when requested. Heck, he doesn't even have to post it on the internet with the options of PM's and EM's. Just being of a curious nature, I wonder why he would not like to give a business name at least rather than trying to impress us with the AHDRA name and other flash words he uses.He makes some valid points, not all of which I agree with, but none the less I'm not calling him on them either. They are after all his opinions and we are all entitled to our own opinions . Feel free to draw your own conclusions as I have done as sometimes lack of information speaks just as much as the information furnished depending on the areas that are omitted.

Ride safe.

 

It seems that helical cut gears are used in the 2006 1200 sportster, the v rod, and the buell ulysses. Looking round the net, it seems that this type of gear is in widespread use in all makes of vehicles. I cant really understand why there is so much suspicion about hds motives for using this kind of gear set up. All i can say about the 6 speed is that it is a very smooth shifting and quiet transmission. All this talk about potential problems some time in the future is mere speculation. Some people hate anything new. If we didnt have innovation, we would all still be riding round on horses. The situation with the primary bearing change is a problem, but one that hd is trying to sort out. Its not that big a deal that people need to get their knickers in a knot over it.

 

Im going to kick in here again and hit upon a few areas:

Lester: "Garage" to many in most parts of the continental US,Mexico, and Canada, is another name for "shop","repair center" etc. I did ,not come here to spam out the business I work at. In fact most internet forums don't allow spamming. I came here only to help give solid advise, chat of some fun topics and peruse around between sessions here at work, or when I'm home bored with nothing to do, just like the rest of the members here. Thats it. Now if you really want some technical help with something from me lester, feel free to PM me or just start up your own thread asking questions and Ill be happy to answer the best I can.

To all: Lets back this thread up back a bit, before everybody gets grouped together, if you carefully check my own postings, I don't attack people EVER when they post a point thats true and has been backed up extensively with proof(both from trial and error,use and from sound theory), to me many times that does not include promotional brochures and magazines influenced heavily from sponsors. I try and stay out of the BS, but one or 2 here continue to bait me, while fully avoiding the meat of the real subject at hand. I have gotten alot of PM's from folks who can cut through the BS and appreciate what I try to bring to the table and I appreciate that. To the others, try and find a better path, it will do all good here.

And if people don't agree with my points. Please debate me, but back it up with SUBSTANCE, not "I read it in a magazine article" or from a "promotional brochure". That doesn't cut it for most, and it doesn't for me either. I can post up alot of old "magazine articles" and brochures from past HD "improvements" or auto mfg's.(lawnmover mfg's etc, you name it basically) that ended up being just the opposite. I love my HD bikes here as much(probably more)than anyone else, but if something on it, is not up to snuff, or ends up going in the wrong direction in terms of what a quality product is, then Im going to do my best to fix it or improve upon the area in question with aftermarket solutions, HD in house solutions(if they come out with one), or my own solutions. I want a bulletproof ride. And that starts with the engine and transmission assembly.


Now I will post again in a bit quoting some paragraphs from above when I get the chance later in the day..........

 

Mega

Thank you for your most generous offer for the help, but again we differ in opinions. When someone asks you for information about your business, that is not spam. When someone comes on and blabs it all over the net, that is spam. I asked you for that info, see the difference here? I really have no argument with you here in this thread. I just asked for some info on your business which you declined or overlooked, whichever. I do not call it spam however in this case. If you are unwilling to give the information for whatever reason , so be it. No big deal here at all to me, I just find that a bit strange for anyone to decline a business contact.

 

Well you said it yourself, we have differing views, so its obvious why there is no need to get in contact or give out contact info then now is there? Anyway, I didn't come here looking for business, I came here for the above reasons mentioned.