running to lean?
Novice
Joined: Oct 2007
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RE: running to lean?
Harley is using O2 sensors to check the rich/lean curve coming out of the engine. with just 2" rush slip ons you don't need to remap anything. If you change the A\C and entire exhaust systems then you do need a remap cause Harley dosent use a Mass Air Flow sensor to notice the larger amout of air.
I have rush 2" slipons with 3000 miles on them and no problems execpt for some rough scaling that builds up on the inlet sid of the muffler. I fix it with a little steel wool. makes it look good as new for another couple hundred miles.
I have rush 2" slipons with 3000 miles on them and no problems execpt for some rough scaling that builds up on the inlet sid of the muffler. I fix it with a little steel wool. makes it look good as new for another couple hundred miles.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 2
From: The Left Coast
RE: running to lean?
ORIGINAL: Snakum
Having been away from scooters for a few years and just now getting back in, I have read everything I can get my hands on about the heat issues and associated fixes. I've also talked to wrenches at four HD shops and two indies. What I decided to do is just go with the old model SEII pipes (I like the deep drum-beat sound and the older models are loud as f#ck),the Stage 1 download for more fuel in the gizmo, and synthetic oils. This should take the heat down just a tad and richen the bike up enough for my piece of mind. I'll find out tomorrow night when I pick it up and will report what I get.
I went this route because I don't need any more power, really. The 96 incher has plenty. I won't be doing any more mods (cams, etc.), and my bike currently cranks and runs just fine. Everyone I know personally who has purchased an aftermarket fuel optimizer has spent hundreds getting it dialed in ... I ain't got hundreds to play with. So, if the synthetic oils and Stage 1 doesn't richen the mixture enough I'll be putting on an oil cooler. But I'm betting it'll be fine for my needs.
YMMV.
ORIGINAL: extech
All H-D's run REALLY lean from the factory to pass EPA restrictions and the stock mufflers have to be at approx 80db to pass DOT restrictions. Changing your mufflers isn't going to chage anything in the factory efi mapping,it'll still be running lean,any muffler you put on will eventually change in color even the factory ones. I've installed a bunch of rush slip ons and havent had any tuning problems(popping,hesitating) if you just want some more noise I'd just use the rush and not fool with air cleaners or tuners.
All H-D's run REALLY lean from the factory to pass EPA restrictions and the stock mufflers have to be at approx 80db to pass DOT restrictions. Changing your mufflers isn't going to chage anything in the factory efi mapping,it'll still be running lean,any muffler you put on will eventually change in color even the factory ones. I've installed a bunch of rush slip ons and havent had any tuning problems(popping,hesitating) if you just want some more noise I'd just use the rush and not fool with air cleaners or tuners.
I went this route because I don't need any more power, really. The 96 incher has plenty. I won't be doing any more mods (cams, etc.), and my bike currently cranks and runs just fine. Everyone I know personally who has purchased an aftermarket fuel optimizer has spent hundreds getting it dialed in ... I ain't got hundreds to play with. So, if the synthetic oils and Stage 1 doesn't richen the mixture enough I'll be putting on an oil cooler. But I'm betting it'll be fine for my needs.
YMMV.
run fine. Have checked my plugs, look OK and feel all is OK, but you will get a variety of opinions on this.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,920
Likes: 8
RE: running to lean?
[/[/quote]
Let me see if I have this right, does running cooler mean the engine can run leaner, or does the fact that the engine is cooler the fuel mix is richer?? I am no expert on these ECM's just curious if those factors all come into play here. I too 'just' have the stg 1 download,cycleshack slip-ons,and hi-flow breather and
run fine. Have checked my plugs, look OK and feel all is OK, but you will get a variety of opinions on this.
[/quote]
Having a little problen following what you are asking but will give it a shot...running leancauses the engineto run hotter...richen (add fuel to the same amount of air)the F(uel)A(ir) mixture and the engine will run cooler. Lean means the engine is getting less than the 'ideal' amount of fuel compared to the amount of air it is 'breathing (Fuel/Air Ratio)...this results in more heat....adding fuel to theoriginal amount of air results in cooler combustion and a cooler engine overall...if your engine is running lean and you install a high flow air filter and less restrictive exhaust you are in effect leaning out the FA mixture even more...you need to add more fuel by whatever method you choose but you do need more fuel to compensate for the extra air...I have been told that the stage one DL basicly keeps the FA ratio same as stock...the hi flow air cleaner adds more air and the stage 1 dl brings the fuel up to the same ratio it was originally so you really havnt helped the heat issue,but hopefully it sounds better...:>
Let me see if I have this right, does running cooler mean the engine can run leaner, or does the fact that the engine is cooler the fuel mix is richer?? I am no expert on these ECM's just curious if those factors all come into play here. I too 'just' have the stg 1 download,cycleshack slip-ons,and hi-flow breather and
run fine. Have checked my plugs, look OK and feel all is OK, but you will get a variety of opinions on this.
[/quote]
Having a little problen following what you are asking but will give it a shot...running leancauses the engineto run hotter...richen (add fuel to the same amount of air)the F(uel)A(ir) mixture and the engine will run cooler. Lean means the engine is getting less than the 'ideal' amount of fuel compared to the amount of air it is 'breathing (Fuel/Air Ratio)...this results in more heat....adding fuel to theoriginal amount of air results in cooler combustion and a cooler engine overall...if your engine is running lean and you install a high flow air filter and less restrictive exhaust you are in effect leaning out the FA mixture even more...you need to add more fuel by whatever method you choose but you do need more fuel to compensate for the extra air...I have been told that the stage one DL basicly keeps the FA ratio same as stock...the hi flow air cleaner adds more air and the stage 1 dl brings the fuel up to the same ratio it was originally so you really havnt helped the heat issue,but hopefully it sounds better...:>
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: Az
RE: running to lean?
I was worried when I pulled the plugs on my 07 when she had about 500 miles on her. They were as white as my tank. Talk about lean. I changed my pipes,a/c and got a fuelpak. The plugs are off white now, not quite like I would like them, but...... I do have a 7 yr warranty. It's still lean, 50 MPG.
We'll see
[IMG]local://upfiles/34121/11990E0273B6435CBB143E9BAAB26E62.jpg[/IMG]
We'll see
[IMG]local://upfiles/34121/11990E0273B6435CBB143E9BAAB26E62.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis, IN
RE: running to lean?
ORIGINAL: Riven_wolf
Harley is using O2 sensors to check the rich/lean curve coming out of the engine. with just 2" rush slip ons you don't need to remap anything. If you change the A\C and entire exhaust systems then you do need a remap cause Harley dosent use a Mass Air Flow sensor to notice the larger amout of air.
I have rush 2" slipons with 3000 miles on them and no problems execpt for some rough scaling that builds up on the inlet sid of the muffler. I fix it with a little steel wool. makes it look good as new for another couple hundred miles.
Harley is using O2 sensors to check the rich/lean curve coming out of the engine. with just 2" rush slip ons you don't need to remap anything. If you change the A\C and entire exhaust systems then you do need a remap cause Harley dosent use a Mass Air Flow sensor to notice the larger amout of air.
I have rush 2" slipons with 3000 miles on them and no problems execpt for some rough scaling that builds up on the inlet sid of the muffler. I fix it with a little steel wool. makes it look good as new for another couple hundred miles.
i guess I will get a new set this spring and maybe try the download
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 217
Likes: 1
From: Out west ... sorta'
RE: running to lean?
ORIGINAL: Sal C
I was worried when I pulled the plugs on my 07 when she had about 500 miles on her. They were as white as my tank. Talk about lean. I changed my pipes,a/c and got a fuelpak. The plugs are off white now, not quite like I would like them, but...... I do have a 7 yr warranty. It's still lean, 50 MPG.
We'll see
I was worried when I pulled the plugs on my 07 when she had about 500 miles on her. They were as white as my tank. Talk about lean. I changed my pipes,a/c and got a fuelpak. The plugs are off white now, not quite like I would like them, but...... I do have a 7 yr warranty. It's still lean, 50 MPG.
We'll see
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