Cam Opinions?
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Hutto, Tx
Cam Opinions?
hey people - I've got a carburated '03 WG that the original owner had stage 1'd from the dealer. I just ordered a Twin-tec Module/coil/wire set that I hope to put on this weekend. By spring, I should be able to swing cams.
I'm around 230# and rarely ride 2-up. The dyna will rarely, if ever, see 5k rpm. I'm wanting to add some bottom-end torque here, NOT 6000rpm horses. Here's the cams I'm looking at (in no particular order):
Andrews,TW37G
Crane,HTC-310-2
S&S,510G
Woods,TW-6G
All these are SIMILAR grinds - some BIG variation in overlap, but most durations are close to 240. (I have specs on each if anyone wants them)
My local indie is pushing the S&S, but I've found at least one reference saying it doesn't come alive until >3K (it has overlap of 40* with a 252 exhaust durtion) Obviously that's not what I'm looking for (or is the 3k inacurate?). I'd really like to find something that pulls strong off the line, or at least by 17-1800, with a top around 4500-5000.
...So... Who out there has any of these, and can you tell me at what rpm it wakes up?
oh, yeah - we're stock 88"
'preciate it
k
I'm around 230# and rarely ride 2-up. The dyna will rarely, if ever, see 5k rpm. I'm wanting to add some bottom-end torque here, NOT 6000rpm horses. Here's the cams I'm looking at (in no particular order):
Andrews,TW37G
Crane,HTC-310-2
S&S,510G
Woods,TW-6G
All these are SIMILAR grinds - some BIG variation in overlap, but most durations are close to 240. (I have specs on each if anyone wants them)
My local indie is pushing the S&S, but I've found at least one reference saying it doesn't come alive until >3K (it has overlap of 40* with a 252 exhaust durtion) Obviously that's not what I'm looking for (or is the 3k inacurate?). I'd really like to find something that pulls strong off the line, or at least by 17-1800, with a top around 4500-5000.
...So... Who out there has any of these, and can you tell me at what rpm it wakes up?
oh, yeah - we're stock 88"
'preciate it
k
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,022
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From: Hudson Valley- NY
RE: Cam Opinions?
Take this for what it's worth, but in my opinion, mild or higher lift cams will do squat with a stock build. You really need to include cams as part of an overall big bore build to get the most out of the money you'll be spending. My recommendation is to save up enough for a good 95" or larger big bore upgrade and have the cams installed at the same time as the motor will be apart anyway. You'll probably see more of an improvement with a big bore kit and some head work w/o the cams than with the cams alone, which might make the bike run lousy by themselves.\
I know what the temptation is, but cams need to be matched to your overall engine plans and putting the cams in first will most likely be very disappointing. A milder set of cams installed first on a stock 88" TC may be a crap match to any upgrades you might want to do later and then you'll be forced to either live with a poorly performing engine, or spend more money to have better matched cams installed and go through the engine disassembly all over again.
My 95" upgrade done last summer was done with parts that were recommended by the engine builder to get the best bang for my hard earned dollars. Builds vary all over the map but you should be able to put one together that will pull from about 1500 rpms right up till the rev limiter kicks in, mine does and I smile every time I crack open the throttle.
Just my 2 cents based on my experience.
I know what the temptation is, but cams need to be matched to your overall engine plans and putting the cams in first will most likely be very disappointing. A milder set of cams installed first on a stock 88" TC may be a crap match to any upgrades you might want to do later and then you'll be forced to either live with a poorly performing engine, or spend more money to have better matched cams installed and go through the engine disassembly all over again.
My 95" upgrade done last summer was done with parts that were recommended by the engine builder to get the best bang for my hard earned dollars. Builds vary all over the map but you should be able to put one together that will pull from about 1500 rpms right up till the rev limiter kicks in, mine does and I smile every time I crack open the throttle.
Just my 2 cents based on my experience.
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RE: Cam Opinions?
I mostly cruise the highways on my Heritage.. so when I pushed the displacment to 106cui, my builder suggested just mild 540 cams (stock heads). When it dyno'd it came back with 100hp and 113ft lbs... which is really sweet.
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From: Hutto, Tx
RE: Cam Opinions?
DGlide - Thanks for the opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I have had plenty of experience on other engines where cams can really "wake up" a stocker.
hoggsbreath - yep, I'm sure the 106 IS sweet, and when I get ready to BB, a stroker is probably the way I'd want to go - more leverage, more torque. Not to critique your build, but I'd bet that would pull even harder with minor head work...?
I admit to not having tons of experiance buiding Harleys, but I do have 20+yrs of diesel, heavy equipment, and automotive mechanic expeience. The BB certainly sounds nice, and I may go there when the current jugs are worn. In the meantime, nearly ANY cam would be an improvement over stock. Part of my cam longing is to eliminate the weak link of the chain drive. My local indie says we can get S&S gear-drives in it under $1000. After that, I don't plan on doing anything but riding for the next 75K miles. ;-)
Again, I appreciate all opinions and I'd never dis another man's ride... Obviously there's a bit of difference between a V-8 and a Vtwin, but the principles should be the same(?). I've seen many, many automotive builds that were radically different engines with merely a cam change - I've also experienced cams that came on like a turbo-charger at certain RPM's.
I don't have delusions of turning an 88 into a 120ftlb torque monster by changing cams & timing, but it seems to me that I can eliminate the weak link and expect SOME performance increase.
Obviously I'm here looking for advice and to tap into others knowledge - doing cams for "no extra expense" when doing a BB kit doesn't sound right to me. To do cams (with adj push-rods), it would seem like one would only have to open the cam case. I may be missing something, but I don't see why one would have to open it up at all when replacing jugs and/or pistons(?).
thanks for reading,
peace,
k
hoggsbreath - yep, I'm sure the 106 IS sweet, and when I get ready to BB, a stroker is probably the way I'd want to go - more leverage, more torque. Not to critique your build, but I'd bet that would pull even harder with minor head work...?
I admit to not having tons of experiance buiding Harleys, but I do have 20+yrs of diesel, heavy equipment, and automotive mechanic expeience. The BB certainly sounds nice, and I may go there when the current jugs are worn. In the meantime, nearly ANY cam would be an improvement over stock. Part of my cam longing is to eliminate the weak link of the chain drive. My local indie says we can get S&S gear-drives in it under $1000. After that, I don't plan on doing anything but riding for the next 75K miles. ;-)
Again, I appreciate all opinions and I'd never dis another man's ride... Obviously there's a bit of difference between a V-8 and a Vtwin, but the principles should be the same(?). I've seen many, many automotive builds that were radically different engines with merely a cam change - I've also experienced cams that came on like a turbo-charger at certain RPM's.
I don't have delusions of turning an 88 into a 120ftlb torque monster by changing cams & timing, but it seems to me that I can eliminate the weak link and expect SOME performance increase.
Obviously I'm here looking for advice and to tap into others knowledge - doing cams for "no extra expense" when doing a BB kit doesn't sound right to me. To do cams (with adj push-rods), it would seem like one would only have to open the cam case. I may be missing something, but I don't see why one would have to open it up at all when replacing jugs and/or pistons(?).
thanks for reading,
peace,
k
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Hutto, Tx
RE: Cam Opinions?
.....ah... did I come across all wrong? or does nobody do cams without big-bore?
All I'm really looking to do is add some reliability, but I'd like to get the most I reasonably can from the stock displacement while I'm in there. It now seems theres a smaller Andrews (21 or 26) that looks like it pulls harder than stock in the range I'm looking for... any comments... any at all?
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RE: Cam Opinions?
I put the SE 203's in my stock dyna, but i heard the 211"s were real nice too for a stock motor! I run a thunderheader with a thunder slide in the carb. dyno say's 74.5 HP and 85.5 torque before I put the cams in! feels a little more umph now!
[IMG]local://upfiles/7348/36D723F89ACD462A80C581785F04EB02.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/7348/36D723F89ACD462A80C581785F04EB02.jpg[/IMG]
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RE: Cam Opinions?
today my Service manager showed me the dyno difference (one bike) between stock everything and stage 1 with cam swap (SE 203), exhaust change, and no big bore. It was 8hp and over 10lb/ft of torque. And he seems like a trustworthy character.
He sold me on the 211 by pointing to the duration difference, like I'm a mechanic [sm=wtf.gif]
He sold me on the 211 by pointing to the duration difference, like I'm a mechanic [sm=wtf.gif]
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Hutto, Tx
RE: Cam Opinions?
hmmmmm.... I don't suppose he showed #'s on the 211's ? I'd have expected near 8 & 10 just with A/C, exhaust, & re-map. From my research, I'm glad you chose the 211... I had come up with the 203's as being JUST better than stock.
Lemme know what kindo #'s you get with the 211's, PLEASE!!
Remember - Rubber side down ;-)
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From: The Frozen Tundra
RE: Cam Opinions?
When you have questions about upgrading your engine I've found this site most excellent =>nightrider.com<=
Here's your cam specs =>nightrider motor specs
Here's your cam specs =>nightrider motor specs
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