Has anyone here actually blown up their motor due to a lean air fuel ratio? What exactly was the damage and how do you atribute it to a lean condition? If you have a bike that is running at fuel to air that is "too lean" lets just say 14.7 to 1 as an example but change it to what ever you want, how many miles until catastrophic engine failure, 10,20,30k? what kind of damage are we talkin, burnt valves, scored/warped cylindersany bottom end damage? Are there any studies/stats on engine failure/damage due to "dangerously lean air fuel maps/settings". I hear and read these catch phrases "too lean" "too hot" = engine damage, and I find myself repeating the same stuff without really thinking about it. I know there are a few experienced tuners on this forum so maybe they can set the record straight on just how an engine running at leaner mixtures creates higher operating temps, and why does adding fuel cause temps to go down?

 

Wow guys, this is some good stuff.......Harley confirms that stage 1exhaust and A/C upgrades will be fine with the '07-'08 models without a remap and the stock ECM will adjust.

The verdict is out.

So to answer your question michaelvs yes your remap is plenty.

 

so how about 2006's?

 

OK first great thread

I too have spoke to Nightrider (Steven) and man I finally met an Engineer, I can relate to, this guy really seems to know his stuff.

anyway,

So how are these Open Looped Fuel managment systems, that much better?You are not getting the feedback from your the o2 sensors anymore

It seems the only true way to have piece of mind (for thoose who need it that is) is Going with the Auto Tune.

 

All I can say is have your stage 1 A/C and pipes done then get your bike dyno'd for A/F ratios to be sure. Get your data, know what you're looking at and then go from there.

 

Got this from the HD website. I would read this that ALL models need some type of ECM change.

Screamin' EagleÂŽ Stage I Air Cleaner Kit - Twin Cam Models

Kit features a one-piece cast back plate with integral breather and mounting brackets for simplified installation, and an air cleaner element that does not require oiling. If you want more torque from your Twin Cam-equipped model, this kit provides a freer breathing capability to pump-up the power of your EFI-equipped motorcycle. This kit includes air cleaner, breather, and all required hardware. Street legal when used with stock mufflers. All EFI-equipped models require ECM calibration (priced separately). Regulatory approvals pending for '08 models.

 

The best solution for not running too lean is to know the optimum a/f ratio range and, after your mods, get it checked. If you still aren't where you need or want to be, you'll have to change something. This is where it's nice to have a tunable device. If you've had the remap or bought a fuelpak (like I did) or installed IED's and the a/f is still off, you are stuck and have to look elsewhere ($$$). I haven't had mine checked but I intend to and will do whatever I need to to get it right if it is not. All I know now is that I have what Vance and Hines recommends and the bike runs a whole lot better with it than without it. That doesn't mean I'm running the optimum mix though.

It has been established that the new bikes are delivered somewhat lean to comply with EPA standards. It's a common belief that the stage 1 download they offer helps the bike run better with the higher flowing components but is still on the lean side of the ratio range. Probably at what HD considers a tolerable level of lean, however. Does that mean that it will just run a lot longer before damage is done? Or is it tolerable enough to not really be harmful but, perhaps, some potential performance gain is lost? I hope the latter is true.

Of course there is also a common belief among some that none of the above is the proper way to tune your bike for stage 1 and the only correct way is to get a tunable device and find a good tuner and have both cylinders individually tuned to the optimum levelof performance.

I didn't get stage 1 looking for performance gains. I had mufflers that were popping badly and I wanted to add a fuelpak to correct it and then a high-flow a/c was required to run the fuelpak. I just wanted the bike to run better and, therefore, cooler and more efficient. I feelI've accomplished that and could really care less how many more horsepower or foot lbs. of torque I'm getting. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy the improvement that I do feel but that was not my intent.

If you want the same thing and can get it through IED's or a remap, go for it. My point for this thread was to let people know that you shouldn't do this without some sort of ECM a/f calibration and for any of us to stop suggesting it.

As far as what AIM said and stands behind regarding the article about the S&S quick setup install they did, remember that they did that with a kit that was designed for that and the article was specific to that kit. Don't take it out of context and think that it applies to any a/c and pipe combination out there. If you want to try it, put them on, run the bike for 15 minutes and then put it on a dyno. If it checks out, good. If it doesn't though, fix it.

 

you know I think the only way to get a definate answer would be to see if people who do stage 1 decide to dyno it before doing anything fuel management wise and posting their numbers on here. Then we could get a real answer. But for me, this says it all

"If you look in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine published
> by Harley, they stated that the 96CID engines would have a 4-7% improvement
> ; in power when upgrading exhaust/air cleaner with no remapping of the ECM. So
> Harley confirmed that remapping is not required. Your engine is not in any
> danger of running dangerously lean. In fact, your engine will run just fine. "

 

Ozfree,

I wouldn't jump to a verdict just because the MoCo says so. If you read my entire post....money is a very motivating factor in advise that is hard to prove.

I think Socrates said that in some other language at one time!!

I'll hold my verdict until I see the first post that reads: Blown engine...mixture too lean.

 

Hey, the MoCo makes the flippin thing. If I can't trust their word, then what?

Look my scoot doesn't have a module. There are others on here that don't as well. I have over 10K on the bike and about 1K on the new pipes and I run the **** out of it.

You guys can go get taken advantage of or you can smarten up and make informed decisions. The choice is yours.