Do I need a Power Commander?
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Tourer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
From: Des Moines, IA
Do I need a Power Commander?
I have V&H Big Radius 2-2 pipes and air cleaner, and the dealer remapped the ECU after this was done. Otherwise, stock '09 Low Rider. I get a lot of popping during decel. The bike doesn't feel terribly strong to me, but I never really rode it w/o the pipes so I can't say if it's changed much.
Would a Power Commander get me anything with this setup?
Since we're on the subject of tuners, PC is the only one I hear much about, are there others I should consider? How difficult are they to install? Any side effects, or things to watch out for?
Would a Power Commander get me anything with this setup?
Since we're on the subject of tuners, PC is the only one I hear much about, are there others I should consider? How difficult are they to install? Any side effects, or things to watch out for?
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
If all you been hearing is PC, then you are not looking. You will find plenty of threads here on the subject, you have dozens of options. If you don't mind adding hardware then the PC may be the way to go, there are others. Most are happy with the PC, some have had reliability problems, some find the tuning limits... well.. limiting.
If you don't want added hardware hanging off the bike, there are software based tuners that reprogram the very capable stock ECU to get the most out of the bike. They are better but maybe more $$$ than you like. For example the TTS and the Harley Race tuner, there are others. Some of these tuners allow the amateur (that knows his way around a laptop) to do a pretty good job tuning for economy or performance or drivability and make it easy to change the tune after you make motor upgrades and without resorting to dyno time.
If you really want to get the most, however, hire a good tuner, tell him what would make you happy, buy what he tells you, pay him to tune the bike.
Just about anything, including the $100 XiEDs, will get you something. The bang for your buck is subjective, however. Each system has its fans.
Here are a couple forums with more specific discussion, some pretty heated:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-injection-55/
http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?board=13.0
http://www.1130cc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=108
I ended up with a TTS and it is a pretty good system. Nothing to install on the bike, just connect a laptop to diagnostic port. There are pluses and minuses to every fueler or tuner, what's good for me may not be so good for you.
If you don't want added hardware hanging off the bike, there are software based tuners that reprogram the very capable stock ECU to get the most out of the bike. They are better but maybe more $$$ than you like. For example the TTS and the Harley Race tuner, there are others. Some of these tuners allow the amateur (that knows his way around a laptop) to do a pretty good job tuning for economy or performance or drivability and make it easy to change the tune after you make motor upgrades and without resorting to dyno time.
If you really want to get the most, however, hire a good tuner, tell him what would make you happy, buy what he tells you, pay him to tune the bike.
Just about anything, including the $100 XiEDs, will get you something. The bang for your buck is subjective, however. Each system has its fans.
Here are a couple forums with more specific discussion, some pretty heated:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-injection-55/
http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?board=13.0
http://www.1130cc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=108
I ended up with a TTS and it is a pretty good system. Nothing to install on the bike, just connect a laptop to diagnostic port. There are pluses and minuses to every fueler or tuner, what's good for me may not be so good for you.
Last edited by ColdCase; Jul 30, 2009 at 03:42 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
At this point, any change you make to your bike, you're stuck going back to the dealer for $150 remap. If you spend the $300 on a powercommander, it's a one time deal that would pay for itself in two mods.
If all you're ever going to do is the pipes and a/c, no you don't need the PC if you got a remap from the dealer.
If you plan on tuning it or adding a big bore kit or cams and headwork...you'll wish you had the powercommander.
If all you're ever going to do is the pipes and a/c, no you don't need the PC if you got a remap from the dealer.
If you plan on tuning it or adding a big bore kit or cams and headwork...you'll wish you had the powercommander.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 10
From: S.E. MO
The stage 1 remap the dealer does is designed for the SE slip-ons and a Stage 1 air cleaner. Since you have a full exhaust it is most likely running lean.
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 74
Likes: 1
From: Syracuse NY
Ecu
I read an article that stated that a bike with a closed loop system is like a cars.If you undo the battery and reconnect, the computer relearns the what has been done to the bike and your good to go. No need to reprogram the ECU.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
Thats right, but within some limits and sensor technology. The ideal running condition the ECU is shooting for is stored in several tables with somewhat complex relationships. The tables saved in the ECU at the factory serves EPA guidance, i.e. pretty lean, and is set for a common denominator. But they say every engine is a little different, so you can think of it as a safe "compromise".
What programers/tuners do is replace these tables with something they think is more closer to ideal, no compromises. Most of the work is coming up with the best tables for the specific engine with its modification and sensor characteristics, some trial and error is involved. Replace the factory tables with the new ones and the ECU will do its thing to try to run the engine at the new ideal conditions and everything is good.
The other approach is to add on hardware that adjust what sensors are feeding the ECU and/or the fueling signals sent to the injectors. Some disable the close loop completely and force certain conditions, developed on a dyno for a system close enough to what you're running. The simplest ones, like the XiED, tricks the ECU in thinking the motor is running a little leaner than it really is, so the ECU ends up feeding it more fuel and you end up with a slightly richer mixture when operating closed loop (idle and cruising).
Again, the seat of pants difference is subjective and therefore the bang for buck is widely debated, the effectiveness or how ideal each system gets is also widely debated. How much do you want to pay for that last bit of HP or mpg... a drag racer may be willing to pay a lot.
What programers/tuners do is replace these tables with something they think is more closer to ideal, no compromises. Most of the work is coming up with the best tables for the specific engine with its modification and sensor characteristics, some trial and error is involved. Replace the factory tables with the new ones and the ECU will do its thing to try to run the engine at the new ideal conditions and everything is good.
The other approach is to add on hardware that adjust what sensors are feeding the ECU and/or the fueling signals sent to the injectors. Some disable the close loop completely and force certain conditions, developed on a dyno for a system close enough to what you're running. The simplest ones, like the XiED, tricks the ECU in thinking the motor is running a little leaner than it really is, so the ECU ends up feeding it more fuel and you end up with a slightly richer mixture when operating closed loop (idle and cruising).
Again, the seat of pants difference is subjective and therefore the bang for buck is widely debated, the effectiveness or how ideal each system gets is also widely debated. How much do you want to pay for that last bit of HP or mpg... a drag racer may be willing to pay a lot.
Last edited by ColdCase; Jul 30, 2009 at 05:33 PM.
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Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
How on earth can you assume that? He could just have the plain ol stage 1 download which is more closer to what they probably did.