I hate to buy a new bike and dump 2000 dollars or more into it to make it run right and not hearing pinging when I ride it.

 

Not familiar with the V Star Dooley, but is it water cooled or air?

If it wasn't for the amount of heat that these bikes put out from the factory, I doubt there would've been this much of a discussion about tuners. I had an 02 EFI Heritage up to 2 years ago, and there was zero heat issues. The only heat came from the oil bath under the seat and it had to be hot!

SilverV
The changing of the A/C does make a difference. Search the forums. There is different CFM rating for the different systems. You might want to look at the Doughtery Power Pack, Ness Big Sucker, Heavy Breather, RSD..... A good tuner gives you the capabilities to change the characteristics of the EFI system. Not unlike changing jets or swapping the carb on your car. Your just doing it electronically.

Just makes sense. More air = more gas = more bang. Some of it has to do with location and temperature as well. I live in an location deemed high altitude (3000' above sea level). I'll never make the same power as someone on the coast. You may find 5 to 15 hp gains there. Not that much on a 350 hp car.... but dramatic on a 82 hp bike.

Also MOCO limits the butterfly opens through the ECM. 80% until 3000 rpm is achieved I believe?

It's all up to what you want to do with your scooter. Some are just fine with the IED's and that's all that matters. Some are never happy no matter what they do. Knowledege is power. The more you know how it works, the better judgment you can make on what you want to do.

All in all KAUFMANSM wanted to know if the dealer was blowing smoke..... he can take from this thread and deceide. No one is telling anyone what they have to do, but some of the statements are out in left field (IMHO).

There's waaaay more to it, but this is the basics to make you just about dangerious...lol

Heywood

 

It's an air cooled 650 V Twin.
This is not the first time I have experienced this either.
I have slapped a pipe on air cooled single cylinder (4 stroke) dirt bikes with no other tuning and had no issues.(yes I know 2 strokes are a different story)

Don't get me wrong here....I am not denying the gains in HP or heat reduction that can be gained with proper tuning on any bike, but I suspect that it may be way more important on some bikes in some situations than others.
I also suspect that some manufactures and dealers take advantage of their customers when it comes to this issue and do more "tuning" than is really necessary.

Why MoCo can't make it run right in stock trim to the point where a stage 1 is almost mandatory is my real issue...and you cant blame it all on the EPA.

 

I'll give you that. Just wondering how much further they can go to meet the EPA mark when you look at a bike with a 1500 cc or greater air cooled motor. The stage 1 flash with the A/C and pipes still isn't much better than stock for cooling it down.

Outside of HD (excluding the V-Rod) I don't think there is anyone else that's not water cooled in this size of a bike?

 

That depends a little on your riding style (closed loop nearly 100% of the time). It's only in closed loop during "steady state" (not accelerating) throttle. Nice long trip will qualify, but running around stoplight to stoplight won't see much "closed loop", and if you are an aggresive rider (like I am sometimes), then you better have a good base map cuz closed loop won't be on very much.

Ooooh man I wish you didn't say that. Might want to start that "other thread" because you are way off on that one! LOL




.

 

I believe most of Yamaha V-Twin cruisers are air cooled from the 650, 950, 1100, V-Stars, 1600 Warrior, 1700 Road Star and even the 1850 used in the Roadliner and the Raider are air cooled.
The Royal Star and the V-Max are liquid cooled but they are V-4's.

Not sure I could be convinced that the size of the motor has that much to do with it.Yeah, I know the theory...bigger motor means more power, means more heat generated.
But test that theory by grabbing the pipe on a 650cc with your bare hands........

 

That's a blanket statement, but for what it's worth, with the TTS You have a small ability to change a/f in close loop by increasing the milli volt number of closed loop bias map.

 

The air cooled ducati monster has the same problems off the showroom floor from what I have read. Compression ratio and other internal design factors probably come into play here.

 

my harley dealer cant even tune a radio,power commander all the way!!!!

 

Hey guys (& gals if applicable), I've been reading through this thread trying to pick up a little information on the MoCo Super Pro Tuner I just purchased. I have 2009 FXDC with a set of V&H Slip-ons with the quiet baffles and everything else stock. The bike runs great like it is with the air/fuel ratio right in the ballpark. I contribute this to the added backpressure of the quiet baffles. I plain to add power mods a step at a time so I went ahead and bought a Super Pro Tuner last week and plain to have it installed tomorrow at the dealership here. I just wanted to add a little fyi that works for me with all the engines I tinker with. In my opinion the best way to tell if your bike is running lean or rich is to simply pull the spark plugs. If the electrodes are white, you're lean. If they're black, you're rich. I also use a temp gun and measure the temperature on the exhaust pipes at the O2 sensor. It really doesnt mater exactly where you do the temp test, just make sure you use that spot all the time. I will check the temperature at idle once the bike is warmed up and after taking it for a good long ride. This has always worked for me in cars, trucks, bikes, and even r/c cars (where I originally started using these methods of measurement).
Lastly I was looking through the calibrations and didn't really find one for a '09 FXD with air filter & exhaust mods (stage 1). In fact even with the updated program version 1.005.0000, the latest bikes it shows calibrations for is 2008 models. The closest I found was for a 2007-08 "all market" with shotgun/shorty dual exhaust with O2 sensors #176AE105. The problem I have with this cal. is that it list 25 degree injectors. I read in another thread that these are "stock" injectors for the '08-'09 models. Is this true? If not, does anyone know which calibration will put me in the ballpark? I was also looking at #202TD002 which says it's for a 1580 with all parameters as stock but with "touring" exhaust. Just comparing the 2 calibrations, I see a lot of differences in the AFR settings. So if anybody knows what calibration I should start with I'd deeply appreciate any and all advise.
Thanks for a great forum and ride safe!