questioning what dealer told me
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
But what I think he's suggesting is that this doesn't seem to make sense, "Starting in '07 or '08 the computer doesn't need a tuner for any stage of upgrade...because the ECM adjusts within 15 minutes to the proper parameters." If that's true, and it may be, I would like to understand it more. My current understanding is that yes, while the ECM can adapt some changing inputs, and will adjust accordingly, it will only do so to a limited extent. For example, the stock O2 sensors have a relatively narrow range. If the AFR is outside that range, the ECM can't adjust. So I can't see running something like a 113" build with open pipes and doing nothing to the ECM at all.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 45
go for a 20 min.ride then pull your bike into a dark garage, let it idle for 20sec. then kill the motor.
if you have no tuner and open pipes you will have glowing head pipes 2006-2008 models.
which is lean! from my own experience.
if you have no tuner and open pipes you will have glowing head pipes 2006-2008 models.
which is lean! from my own experience.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
TTS or SERT is money well spent....either way, it needs to be tuned on a DYNO by somebody who knows what they are doing.
I have the download and PC III. The TTS or SERT is better becasue it has more adjustability.
As far as the download, it also raises your redline, in addition to a more agressive ignition curve and A/F ratio. The PC III jsut allowed for more fine tuning.
I am running 13.7 A/F across the board.
But.....wish I had the TTS/SERT.
~Joe
I have the download and PC III. The TTS or SERT is better becasue it has more adjustability.
As far as the download, it also raises your redline, in addition to a more agressive ignition curve and A/F ratio. The PC III jsut allowed for more fine tuning.
I am running 13.7 A/F across the board.
But.....wish I had the TTS/SERT.
~Joe
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 13
From: Asscrackistan
Essentialy, yes!
I'll let him answer about what he's saying.
But what I think he's suggesting is that this doesn't seem to make sense, "Starting in '07 or '08 the computer doesn't need a tuner for any stage of upgrade...because the ECM adjusts within 15 minutes to the proper parameters." If that's true, and it may be, I would like to understand it more. My current understanding is that yes, while the ECM can adapt some changing inputs, and will adjust accordingly, it will only do so to a limited extent. For example, the stock O2 sensors have a relatively narrow range. If the AFR is outside that range, the ECM can't adjust. So I can't see running something like a 113" build with open pipes and doing nothing to the ECM at all.
But what I think he's suggesting is that this doesn't seem to make sense, "Starting in '07 or '08 the computer doesn't need a tuner for any stage of upgrade...because the ECM adjusts within 15 minutes to the proper parameters." If that's true, and it may be, I would like to understand it more. My current understanding is that yes, while the ECM can adapt some changing inputs, and will adjust accordingly, it will only do so to a limited extent. For example, the stock O2 sensors have a relatively narrow range. If the AFR is outside that range, the ECM can't adjust. So I can't see running something like a 113" build with open pipes and doing nothing to the ECM at all.
In bold, is correct! It makes no sense. The 02's ARE narrow band, which is not enough to compensate, if at all! If you do upgrades as he suggested with no ECM changes, not only would it run shitty, but over time you WILL fry the pistons.
Last edited by BlockHead96; Oct 17, 2009 at 01:23 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 4
From: Augusta, GA
I guess some of you don't know the closed loop, narrow band O2 sensor system of '06 was changed to the wide band, open loop system in '07.
That's fine, I'm sure no damage will be done by opting to go with a tuner and a few hundred dollars worth of dyno time that you really don't need.
That's fine, I'm sure no damage will be done by opting to go with a tuner and a few hundred dollars worth of dyno time that you really don't need.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 259
Likes: 1
From: I'm on the Central West Coast
My understanding of the stock ECM is that it does self adjust to minor changes to the A/C and Exhaust system. The O2 sensors keep the AFR at 14.7 regardless of whether or not you have the Stage one down load.
It is against federal law for a dealer to alter the AFR.
It is against federal law for a dealer to alter the AFR.
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Amen. The sensors constantly measure afr and adjust mixture in real-time to maintain 14.7:1. If you add an IED, you can reduce that to approximatley 14:1 depending on which you choose. Bolt on any pipes you want...no tuner needed. Lots of guys wasting lots of money on tuners that do nothing in closed-loop mode.
Not sure if this would apply to major rebuild impact, but entirely likely.
Not sure if this would apply to major rebuild impact, but entirely likely.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 658
Likes: 2
From: Aldergrove BC, Canada
07 FXD---Rode to Sturgis in 95+ deg weather at legal or slightly above the posted limit, then to Bonnyville, Reno, San Fran, and home to BC ----SE air Cleaner, Supertrapp 2/1 and Xied's, mileage about 200 miles before light came on----bike ran exceptionally well.
06 Bob--same trip, wifes bike, ridden a little faster than mine on occasion, Aftermarket open aircleaner with SE filter, V&H 2/1 pipes, and 06 Ied's the first model--bike ran better than mine mileage wise.
Taking heads off this winter to check for any "signs" of concern---do not expect any.
06 Bob--same trip, wifes bike, ridden a little faster than mine on occasion, Aftermarket open aircleaner with SE filter, V&H 2/1 pipes, and 06 Ied's the first model--bike ran better than mine mileage wise.
Taking heads off this winter to check for any "signs" of concern---do not expect any.