Mother F*&%ing ping!
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 7
From: Southwest Florida
Dude....chill out!! You want help here, lower your bark! It's a problem for the dealer. Don't do a download. Get a tuner of your choice and get the bike dynoed. They are set VERY LEAN from the factory. If your not a F#%#ing moron, you would have already taken it back to them instead of boohoo'n about you doin the first service and they don't like doin warranty work. You don;t have to spend $1,500.00 to fix this issue, but you will have to spend some $$
Story:
Traveling salesman gets a flat tire on the road, in the boonies. Looks in trunk, no jack, spare but no jack. Sees a farmhouse down the road and starts walking toward it.
Starts thinking, "Farmers don't like traveling salesmen too much, what with all the jokes & everthing. Maybe he won't lend me a Jack. Maybe he's a mean sonuvagun. Maybe he don't like City people. He might run me off. He could be hostile and point a gun at me.........."
He gets to the front door, knocks on it, the Farmer opens the door and the traveling salesman sez, "I didn't want to borrow your G**D**** Jack anyway!!"
We all do that to ourselves. Well, most of us. Just take it to the Dealer and -- Be nice.
Dealers aren't wild about doing Warranty for the simple reason they don't get paid as much. Tough booties. Just be nice. Kill them with kindness. Do NOT be confrontational. Even if you don't hear what you want to hear the first time. Be nice and leave. Then go back and continue to be nice.
Don't act like you know something they don't. Don't get defensive. Play dumb (easy for me).
If you do run into a problem (I kind of doubt it), don't make phone calls unless you're looking for a name or address. Do your complaining in writing and do it very nicely and very maturely.
Document everything. Everything.
But I'm getting to the "I didn't want to borrow your GD jack" already. See how easy it is?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,489
Likes: 23
From: East of Tulsa
After you have done the mentioned checks and found nothing wrong.
Cheap to try: IEDs- you might find them in the parts for sale section at a discount. I got a set to try on my '07. Not installed yet, but will this week. If it doesn't satisfy you, resale them.
More cost: one of the tuners. If you are planning to add to your build at a later date you might want something like the tts.
Cheap to try: IEDs- you might find them in the parts for sale section at a discount. I got a set to try on my '07. Not installed yet, but will this week. If it doesn't satisfy you, resale them.
More cost: one of the tuners. If you are planning to add to your build at a later date you might want something like the tts.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
Err, nope, that's not how these work. They are fitted between the O2 sensors and the ECU, they make the reading from the sensor appear lean and the ECU compensates accordingly. However, when the throttle is open more than 90% and/or the RPM is more than 5000 (on the stock map anyway) then the bike is in open-loop and the readings from the O2 sensors are ignored and the Xied will do nothing.
On the rest of this discussion, the XiED is not going to fix drivability issues, I know I've been there. This bike should not be running like this from the factory. Anything you put on it may be able to cover up the defect, but the defect is still there.
The only way for a DIY to be sure that they can cover up a factory defect is a more sophisticated tool like the TTS. I know, I've been there too. One product or another may by chance work, but it is a chance. The detailed datamaster recordings give you a good idea of what is going on, and the mapping tool provides more than enough ***** to adjust.
I would try to have the dealer fix it first, however. I did, didn't cost anything but a trip to the dealer. They were not as annoyed by the surge as I was, however.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,562
Likes: 11
From: Palm Harbor fl.
1st the bikes are not set up "very lean" from the factory. The car you drive is set to the same AFR as your bike(yes it is true that an air cooled motor prefers a richer AFR for better performance and cooler running). There is one thing that many can forget. If Harley sends out every single bike tuned the same, well, we all should know that commonly two different engine with the exact same mods can end up dyno tuned differently to achieve the same results. So, this could explain the problems some face with detonation on their stock Harley, while others are probably fine. I don't know if the dealer can do anything, however I believe that your bike should not detonate when running the proper fuel and folllowing the shifting guidelines Harley presents in their manual. As long as your running the bike to the Harley specs, if detonation is occuring, maybe you do have a case to bring to Harley to hopefully fix the problem. Oh yeah rider weight could have something to do with problems as well, so should you bring to the dealer, try to get someone about your size to test ride the bike. Of course if you a lighter rider, don't worry about this too much, however a 165lb rider will not put the same load on the motor as say a 250lb one(I don't know your weight so do not get offended as I am just mentioning a possibility that could occur as well).
Last edited by rounder; May 16, 2010 at 09:42 AM.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 7
From: Southwest Florida
1st the bike are not set up "very lean" from the factory. The car you drive is set to the same AFR as your bike. Ther is one thing that many can forget. If Harley sends out every single bike tuned the same, well, we all should know that commonly two different engine with the exact same mods can end up dyno tuned differently to achieve the same results. So, this could explain the problems some face with detonation on their stock Harley, while others are probably fine. I don't know if the dealer can do anything, however I believe that your bike should not detonate when running the proper fuel and folllowing the shifting guidelines Harley presents in their manual. As long as your running the bike to the Harley specs, if detonation is occuring, maybe you do have a case to bring to Harley to hopefully fix the problem.
The bike should run correctly without you, or anyone else, doing anything to it. Not run perfectly, but correctly.
If you add, tune, buy, alter -- Whatever. All you're doing is covering up an existing problem.
Take it to the dealer. Let them put their analyzer on it. See if they can find a code. Something ain't right so don't ignore it.
Could be an injecter. Could be a vacuum leak. Could be an O2 sensor. Could be the ECM took a dump. It happens. Could be a LOT of things. But you PAID for that warranty. Trust me. It isn't on the price list, but you paid for it.
Use it. The dealer should only be able to void your warranty if did something 'malicious' to the motorcycle.
Period.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 304
Likes: 1
From: Washington State
My 'o9 pinged like a ****. It is stock to the last bolt. I put a set of SE slip ons but I punched the baffles open a bit for alittle more sound and was surprised that the ping was gone too. My theory too much exhaust restriction. You shouldnt have to run octane booster on a brand new vehicle, it is really Harley's shortcoming and they should be figuring it out. If it needs less timing and a richer A/F then they should do it, merely sticking a catalytic converter on it and calling it good is not the answer IMHO
Tourer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 316
Likes: 2
35 in 3rd gear is lugging IMHO. I dont hit 2nd till 50 or so.
when I ride in town I don't do it as much.
And yes, bikes are lean from the factory. When I bought my 95 fat boy new, it was starving. why do you think they used to cap the mixture screw on carbed bikes. I've never heard with the probs you're having. Not in the 8 years I been at the dealer.
I don't recommend V&H pipes. Their quality has gone down hill. the didn't do much for my bikes.
I have since switched to Thunderheaders and use them exclusively on my bikes.
I run the harley stage 1 air cleaners and a screming eagle super tuner and then a dyno tune. I have run PC3 and have had good results but th super tuner allows you to fine tune it.
when I ride in town I don't do it as much.
And yes, bikes are lean from the factory. When I bought my 95 fat boy new, it was starving. why do you think they used to cap the mixture screw on carbed bikes. I've never heard with the probs you're having. Not in the 8 years I been at the dealer.
I don't recommend V&H pipes. Their quality has gone down hill. the didn't do much for my bikes.
I have since switched to Thunderheaders and use them exclusively on my bikes.
I run the harley stage 1 air cleaners and a screming eagle super tuner and then a dyno tune. I have run PC3 and have had good results but th super tuner allows you to fine tune it.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,562
Likes: 11
From: Palm Harbor fl.
I think the term "too lean" or "very lean" needs to be redefined. 14.7:1 is regarded as the afr ratio where all the fuel is burned in the combustion chamber. less fuel than 14.7:1 will result in a lean condition as there is too much air to fuel. Now again the 14.7:1 is too little fuel for best performance, yet it is not actually too lean or very lean as for it to be too lean or very lean the fuel would have to be too little for the amount of air.
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Joe Kucinski
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 795
Likes: 1
09 bikes are set at 14.6. I heard that 07 & 08s were running 14.7 but can not confirm the info. Sounds silly but have you check the plug wires and connections to the plug. A cracked plug housing will run fine under heavy load but show its' fault at light load which is the symptom you are describing. Get another pair and install them to see if the symptom goes away. Takes 5 minutes and can save you a lot of time and money.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: California
I agree with the other posts. If it is under warranty and all stock it is pinging it needs to be fixed by the dealer. Have you considered it's not really a ping? Perhaps you have a loose exhaust part or baffle. I say let the dealer fix it.