09 dyna restart
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 1
From: A house.
Yeah, sounds like we're in the same boat so far as pre-det goes. I definitely have a fuel tuner in my future too. In the mean time, try to avoid hard acceleration, and back it off a bit when you hear it ping. Even completely stock, these things are just plain running too lean. A richer AFR will keep the engine running cooler, add noticeable power and even improve the exhaust note, most of all, it'll eliminate the pinging and improve your engine's chance to achieve a long service life. Heat kills. Check out fuelmoto.com to learn more about the various types of tuners available and their pros and cons to see what type is most suited to your style/budget. Jamie @ fuelmoto, is a good guy, and he'll make sure you get setup for what you have and need.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678
Likes: 1
From: Brooklyn, NY
anyone bother to check the throttle body, and give it a good cleaning...
granted, that place has a filter, and keeps out the crud and particles via the filter element, but
i guaran-friggin- tee it .. pull off the filter, slip your finger back there and do a military style white finger rub, your gonna pull out a good amount of carbon, ccrud and what have ya....
i break out my carb, fuel injector cleaner spray and a damp towel from time to time. i spray the towel and reach in there and wipe it down...
if you look into the throttle body, you'll see a small hole, (* i believe its on the left ) git in there and clean it out as well
i do it once a month... and Not one problem starting her up..
granted, that place has a filter, and keeps out the crud and particles via the filter element, but
i guaran-friggin- tee it .. pull off the filter, slip your finger back there and do a military style white finger rub, your gonna pull out a good amount of carbon, ccrud and what have ya....
i break out my carb, fuel injector cleaner spray and a damp towel from time to time. i spray the towel and reach in there and wipe it down...
if you look into the throttle body, you'll see a small hole, (* i believe its on the left ) git in there and clean it out as well
i do it once a month... and Not one problem starting her up..
Tourer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 5
From: The mitten state
Just to be clear! Ping is DETONATION! ( pre-detonation would be a normal running engine without detonation!) The term I think you were looking for is PRE-IGNITION. Detonation is the simultaneous combustion of the end gases, as pressure from combustion causes those "end gases" to explode. That rise in pressure from the simultaneous (or explosion) of the end gases makes the "PING" sound from the vibration of the pressure rise.
Pre-ignition is the START of combustion before a spark event and the rising piston, is now compressing a fresh fuel charge. Detonation can and does lead to hot spots in the chamber, that can cause pre-ignition!
But detonation is PING and is the fuel charge exploding at the END of combustion, whereas pre-ignition is the lighting of the fresh charge before a spark event. Pre-ignition cannot be heard and is a short duration event! As it will in most instances burn a hole in the piston very quickly!
Detonation will cause damage over time and can be both "audible" (it can be heard as a PING) and low level detonation can be non-audible. (it cannot be heard.) But even low level non-audible detonation over time can cause damage to both pistons and ring lands!
Pre-ignition is the START of combustion before a spark event and the rising piston, is now compressing a fresh fuel charge. Detonation can and does lead to hot spots in the chamber, that can cause pre-ignition!
But detonation is PING and is the fuel charge exploding at the END of combustion, whereas pre-ignition is the lighting of the fresh charge before a spark event. Pre-ignition cannot be heard and is a short duration event! As it will in most instances burn a hole in the piston very quickly!
Detonation will cause damage over time and can be both "audible" (it can be heard as a PING) and low level detonation can be non-audible. (it cannot be heard.) But even low level non-audible detonation over time can cause damage to both pistons and ring lands!
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 1
From: A house.
Just to be clear! Ping is DETONATION! ( pre-detonation would be a normal running engine without detonation!) The term I think you were looking for is PRE-IGNITION. Detonation is the simultaneous combustion of the end gases, as pressure from combustion causes those "end gases" to explode. That rise in pressure from the simultaneous (or explosion) of the end gases makes the "PING" sound from the vibration of the pressure rise.
Pre-ignition is the START of combustion before a spark event and the rising piston, is now compressing a fresh fuel charge. Detonation can and does lead to hot spots in the chamber, that can cause pre-ignition!
But detonation is PING and is the fuel charge exploding at the END of combustion, whereas pre-ignition is the lighting of the fresh charge before a spark event. Pre-ignition cannot be heard and is a short duration event! As it will in most instances burn a hole in the piston very quickly!
Detonation will cause damage over time and can be both "audible" (it can be heard as a PING) and low level detonation can be non-audible. (it cannot be heard.) But even low level non-audible detonation over time can cause damage to both pistons and ring lands!
Pre-ignition is the START of combustion before a spark event and the rising piston, is now compressing a fresh fuel charge. Detonation can and does lead to hot spots in the chamber, that can cause pre-ignition!
But detonation is PING and is the fuel charge exploding at the END of combustion, whereas pre-ignition is the lighting of the fresh charge before a spark event. Pre-ignition cannot be heard and is a short duration event! As it will in most instances burn a hole in the piston very quickly!
Detonation will cause damage over time and can be both "audible" (it can be heard as a PING) and low level detonation can be non-audible. (it cannot be heard.) But even low level non-audible detonation over time can cause damage to both pistons and ring lands!
Admittedly, I tend to mistakenly blur the terms, though as you describe, pre-ignition and detonation are two separate and distinct events. To me, it's like a cat chasing it's tail. I get that you can't hear pre-ignition, and that it's a detonation, or explosion or uncontrolled burn creating the "ping" you hear. Detonation can produce hot spots that can cause pre-ignition. Detonation occurs sometime during the intake (air in, fuel injects, piston moving towards BDC) stroke or compression (valves closed, piston moves towards TDC) stroke, but obviously before (pre) the power (plug fires, mixture combusts, piston heading down) stroke. See how I blur it?
Now, when you say simultaneous (1. do you mean to say spontaneous?
When you say simultaneous (2. do you mean to say spontaneous combustion? If not, what is the other event occuring simultaneously with combustion? (or detonation?) AND, just so you know, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just really trying hard to wrap my mind around your post. Cheers (Really!)
Tourer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 348
Likes: 5
From: The mitten state
simultaneous combustion of the end gases, is the correct term as all of the end gases combust simultaneously. (simultaneous=Instantaneous)
Or all at once!
spontaneous= unprompted or without a reason. Where the end gases do combust because of a the heat and pressure of combustion, so there is a reason.
So technically, simultaneous is the term you will find in engineer textbooks to explain the end gas detonation.
And yes I mean they ( the remaining end gases) combust all at the same time, in a mini explosion.
Or all at once!
spontaneous= unprompted or without a reason. Where the end gases do combust because of a the heat and pressure of combustion, so there is a reason.
So technically, simultaneous is the term you will find in engineer textbooks to explain the end gas detonation.
And yes I mean they ( the remaining end gases) combust all at the same time, in a mini explosion.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 1
From: A house.
simultaneous combustion of the end gases, is the correct term as all of the end gases combust simultaneously. (simultaneous=Instantaneous)
Or all at once!
spontaneous= unprompted or without a reason. Where the end gases do combust because of a the heat and pressure of combustion, so there is a reason.
So technically, simultaneous is the term you will find in engineer textbooks to explain the end gas detonation.
And yes I mean they ( the remaining end gases) combust all at the same time, in a mini explosion.
Or all at once!
spontaneous= unprompted or without a reason. Where the end gases do combust because of a the heat and pressure of combustion, so there is a reason.
So technically, simultaneous is the term you will find in engineer textbooks to explain the end gas detonation.
And yes I mean they ( the remaining end gases) combust all at the same time, in a mini explosion.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 427
Likes: 1
From: Hot Springs, AR
My bone stock 2010 FXD needs to crank a lot longer before it fires on a hot start. It even happens if the bike hasn't run for a day but I start it for the first time when it's above 90 deg. It seems to be worst after filling up the gas tank. I kind of thought it might be related to gas fumes accumulating in the evaporative emission control equipment, but that's just a guess on my part.
It always starts eventually. At the beginning of the hot weather sometimes I would make the problem worse because my brain had become trained to the quick start the bike gave me in cooler weather and I would involuntarily release the starter button after the second revolution. It would pop out the air cleaner when I did that. Now I just hold it down until the bike really starts and it's not much of a problem.
It always starts eventually. At the beginning of the hot weather sometimes I would make the problem worse because my brain had become trained to the quick start the bike gave me in cooler weather and I would involuntarily release the starter button after the second revolution. It would pop out the air cleaner when I did that. Now I just hold it down until the bike really starts and it's not much of a problem.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 4
From: NC
Neutral
You have to always have it in NEUTRAL and be sure and give the starter button a firm push and it will not do that. I used to start my bike in gear but quit due to that same problem. It hasnt done that since. Granted you can start bike in gear in emergency situations , but other than that I dont recommend it.
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