Stage 1 Question
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: Del,NJ,MD, and PA
Welcome aboard to the OP (original poster) ...
As explained by a couple of the fellas, Stage I is a 'high flow' air cleaner (sometimes, A/C) and less restrictive exhaust. Since the motor is an air pump of sorts, and your bike is an electronic fuel injection (EFI) system, when making the changes, the computer (electronic control module or ECM) program is not designed to account for the additional air flow. As a result the air to fuel ratio (or AFR) will be lean--more air with the same amount of fuel. This condition increases the heat generated by your motor and is otherwise not good for your bike.
Harley Davidson, through their 'performance' brand name Screamin' Eagle (SE) realizes owners will frequently make this combination of modifications (mods) and will reprogram your ECM to enrich your AFR curves. This increase in fuel and air at the same RPM will increase performance as measured in terms of Torque and Horsepower ... but, will also decrease your average fuel economy a little.
The service manual--while extremely handy (and which I heartily recommend)--does not really cover this information.
In addition to SE 'download' reprogramming for your ECM, there are a plethora of alternative solutions to a lean AFR condition many provided by the aftermarket. SE makes a couple of popular solutions--one is an 'add on' or 'piggy back' module and one is a software system that allows you full on access to reprogram your ECM (not only for the AFR, but for the timing advance curve). Various popular aftermarket systems are Power Commander (PC ... various gererations from III to V currently), Vance and Hines Fuel Pack, Kuryakyn has one, Dobeck, and so forth.
A vendor who used to supply Harley Davidson with the Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner (or SERT) is TTS Master Tune. They now offer a competitive full access ECM programming system. Another popular full ECM replacement system with the ability to fully access and tune is Thunder Max with Auto Tune (T-Max, or sometimes TMAT) there are a few others as well ... I believe Accel makes one, FI2000, etc.
When going with a 'Stage I' motor setup, it might be considered 'overkill' to get a full ECM programming system as they tend to cost from around $450 - $850 range ... however, if 'Stage I' will just be a phase you are going through ... until you save up enough for your cams, heads and big bore kit, then it might be worthwhile making that investment 'up front' ....
Good luck and hope this info makes your decision a little clearer ....
R/
'Chop
As explained by a couple of the fellas, Stage I is a 'high flow' air cleaner (sometimes, A/C) and less restrictive exhaust. Since the motor is an air pump of sorts, and your bike is an electronic fuel injection (EFI) system, when making the changes, the computer (electronic control module or ECM) program is not designed to account for the additional air flow. As a result the air to fuel ratio (or AFR) will be lean--more air with the same amount of fuel. This condition increases the heat generated by your motor and is otherwise not good for your bike.
Harley Davidson, through their 'performance' brand name Screamin' Eagle (SE) realizes owners will frequently make this combination of modifications (mods) and will reprogram your ECM to enrich your AFR curves. This increase in fuel and air at the same RPM will increase performance as measured in terms of Torque and Horsepower ... but, will also decrease your average fuel economy a little.
The service manual--while extremely handy (and which I heartily recommend)--does not really cover this information.
In addition to SE 'download' reprogramming for your ECM, there are a plethora of alternative solutions to a lean AFR condition many provided by the aftermarket. SE makes a couple of popular solutions--one is an 'add on' or 'piggy back' module and one is a software system that allows you full on access to reprogram your ECM (not only for the AFR, but for the timing advance curve). Various popular aftermarket systems are Power Commander (PC ... various gererations from III to V currently), Vance and Hines Fuel Pack, Kuryakyn has one, Dobeck, and so forth.
A vendor who used to supply Harley Davidson with the Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner (or SERT) is TTS Master Tune. They now offer a competitive full access ECM programming system. Another popular full ECM replacement system with the ability to fully access and tune is Thunder Max with Auto Tune (T-Max, or sometimes TMAT) there are a few others as well ... I believe Accel makes one, FI2000, etc.
When going with a 'Stage I' motor setup, it might be considered 'overkill' to get a full ECM programming system as they tend to cost from around $450 - $850 range ... however, if 'Stage I' will just be a phase you are going through ... until you save up enough for your cams, heads and big bore kit, then it might be worthwhile making that investment 'up front' ....
Good luck and hope this info makes your decision a little clearer ....
R/
'Chop
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 847
Likes: 700
From: NE
Stage 1 seems to help some with that.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 1
From: Allen, Texas
Yes, the changing of the intake is what matters as far as Air Fuel Ratios go. You can do that and add the pipes later if you wish.
The SE part only comes in if you get the dealership to do the stage 1 download. Often times they will only deal with Harley products claiming it will affect your warranty.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: kentucky
No, stage 1 does not require SE parts only. Stage 1 is considered any brand hi flow air cleaner and often, but not required, aftermarket exhaust, be it slipon mufflers or full exhaust system.
Yes, the changing of the intake is what matters as far as Air Fuel Ratios go. You can do that and add the pipes later if you wish.
The SE part only comes in if you get the dealership to do the stage 1 download. Often times they will only deal with Harley products claiming it will affect your warranty.
Yes, the changing of the intake is what matters as far as Air Fuel Ratios go. You can do that and add the pipes later if you wish.
The SE part only comes in if you get the dealership to do the stage 1 download. Often times they will only deal with Harley products claiming it will affect your warranty.
I agree with that somewhat but some dealers deal with aftermarket parts and doesn't void the warranty. I had my stage 1 done at the dealership. I had a SE air filter, SE race tuner, but they put V&H competition series 2-1 exhaust on my bike. It just depends on the dealer and what parts they like do deal with. You can have the dealer do stage 1 for you if you haven't already got a bike and have it added to your loan. You can go with just slip-ons like S&S or Rush but with the stock ECM you need to keep your baffle around 1 3/4 inch or less. Anymore and you can run into tuning issues with the ECM.
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 401
From: Port Coquitlam B.C.
I can only tell you what my dealer told me. I had the a/c and download done first (as noted above). My dealer told me that I could put any type of pipe on I wanted to. As long as the engine stayed stock the download could handle any pipe. I'm not saying that's right, but it is what I was told.
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