Proof you don't need a tuner
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 848
Likes: 30
From: CO
Just because somebody did the mods without a tune, and notices no problems whatsoever putting on 172 miles per year going from bar to bar at 35 mph does NOT mean that the guy bombing up I-80 into the Rockies two up at 75 mph in August is going to have the same outcome.
Last edited by Red Dragons; Feb 10, 2015 at 01:07 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 195
Likes: 7
From: Katy, TX
Ditto.
As we all know, this topic has been beat to death, and for a very good reason:
There has never been a general consensus or agreement on what the phrase "Do I have to" actually means.
Do you have to pay your income taxes? No, you do not.
Do you have to be faithful to your significant other? No, you do not.
Do you have to retune your motorcycle if you install an unknown combination of different air cleaner and/or exhaust systems? No, you do not.
As always, any decision always has both positive and negative repercussions.
Just because somebody did the mods without a tune, and notices no problems whatsoever putting on 172 miles per year going from bar to bar at 35 mph does NOT mean that the guy bombing up I-80 into the Rockies two up at 75 mph in August is going to have the same outcome.
Do your own research and make your own choices, because there are NO answers for you in these threads.
As we all know, this topic has been beat to death, and for a very good reason:
There has never been a general consensus or agreement on what the phrase "Do I have to" actually means.
Do you have to pay your income taxes? No, you do not.
Do you have to be faithful to your significant other? No, you do not.
Do you have to retune your motorcycle if you install an unknown combination of different air cleaner and/or exhaust systems? No, you do not.
As always, any decision always has both positive and negative repercussions.
Just because somebody did the mods without a tune, and notices no problems whatsoever putting on 172 miles per year going from bar to bar at 35 mph does NOT mean that the guy bombing up I-80 into the Rockies two up at 75 mph in August is going to have the same outcome.
Do your own research and make your own choices, because there are NO answers for you in these threads.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
Hey, it's not my fault if people get upset and resort to name-calling, when they learn that they spent $300 to $800 more than they needed to for a pipe and an air filter. 
Sure, get into larger changes, like cam and cubic inch changes, and a tune will probably be needed.
Getting back to the content of original post:
American Iron magazine has done lots of "Stage 1" type upgrades on Harleys made after 06, checked them on the dyno, and found that they weren't off enough to benefit from tuning changes, other than what the stock computer is capable of doing automatically. Maybe they're idiots, but it's more likely that they aren't.
Sure, get into larger changes, like cam and cubic inch changes, and a tune will probably be needed.
Getting back to the content of original post:
American Iron magazine has done lots of "Stage 1" type upgrades on Harleys made after 06, checked them on the dyno, and found that they weren't off enough to benefit from tuning changes, other than what the stock computer is capable of doing automatically. Maybe they're idiots, but it's more likely that they aren't.
Last edited by Warp Factor; Feb 10, 2015 at 02:37 PM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,983
Likes: 2,144
From: Ohio
I have two friends with a Streetglide and an Electraglide. Both have aftermarket slipons, Rinehart on the Streetglide, and Vance and Hines on the E-glide. They both have an SE air box, with just the dealer download. Streetglide has 78,000 miles on it. Electraglide has 57,000 miles on it. Neither one has had any engine problems and both still run like new. As a matter of fact, I don't know of anyone with the dealer download that has had a single problem with their bikes. Can't be as bad as you all are trying to make it out to be.
Last edited by hd4evr2008; Feb 10, 2015 at 05:08 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 470
Likes: 111
From: Huntington Beach
I just sold my 03 EG, it had Thunder Headers, Thunder Header Slip On s and an A/C. It only had a dealer installed stage 1 flash. It ran pretty good, a lil pop burble here and there but it gave me 30k trouble free miles. Never bothered with a tuner, my indy said F it, it's a Harley. Right or wrong, it ended up being a great bike and the new owner was and is very happy. My new bike which is actually sitting in the dealer show room now, waiting for me, is a 2015 Street Bob (I'm so F'n excited, should have it this weekend, yay). With that said, my absolute first mod on the new bike will be a V&H FP3! Once the tuner is in I will then build from there. Now to figure out what brand oil to run....lol
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 195
Likes: 7
From: Katy, TX
Its awesome how everyone thinks their Harley is the absolute best one out there. That what makes this **** so fun.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
As is the case in almost all aspects of life, the "80/20 Rule" applies. In the case of "I did ___, do I have to do a tune?", it works like this:
20% of posters say: "I refused to do something I should have, and my bike didn't blow up, therefore nobody has to do it".
20% of posters say: "I did something I really shouldn't have, and my bike didn't blow up, therefore everybody can do it".
60% of posters do some research and ask some questions that pertain to their specific situation, think about it, and do the logical thing.
20% of posters say: "I refused to do something I should have, and my bike didn't blow up, therefore nobody has to do it".
20% of posters say: "I did something I really shouldn't have, and my bike didn't blow up, therefore everybody can do it".
60% of posters do some research and ask some questions that pertain to their specific situation, think about it, and do the logical thing.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 88
From: USA
Hey, it's not my fault if people get upset and resort to name-calling, when they learn that they spent $300 to $800 more than they needed to for a pipe and an air filter.
Sure, get into larger changes, like cam and cubic inch changes, and a tune will probably be needed.
Getting back to the content of original post:
American Iron magazine has done lots of "Stage 1" type upgrades on Harleys made after 06, checked them on the dyno, and found that they weren't off enough to benefit from tuning changes, other than what the stock computer is capable of doing automatically. Maybe they're idiots, but it's more likely that they aren't.
Sure, get into larger changes, like cam and cubic inch changes, and a tune will probably be needed.
Getting back to the content of original post:
American Iron magazine has done lots of "Stage 1" type upgrades on Harleys made after 06, checked them on the dyno, and found that they weren't off enough to benefit from tuning changes, other than what the stock computer is capable of doing automatically. Maybe they're idiots, but it's more likely that they aren't.
The ECM is capable of compensating for any changes in the fuel mixture up to a certain point, that's caused by an air cleaner or higher flow exhaust. Probably any stage 1 mod you do, the engine will compensate for, bringing the fuel ratio the stock and keeping it at the stock AFR.
This is a fact.
However, the question really is.. is that stock AFR (stock map) that you're running the best for the engine's overall longevity and performance? Is it optimal? No, IMHO.
So do you NEED a download or fuel map? No. Not unless you're doing engine work. Should you WANT a to run a fuel map that will make the performance better and the engine run cooler? I know I would.
The people that say there is no difference are the people that wouldn't notice a difference with it or without, because they're riding style probably wouldn't dictate that they would. if anyone wants to take that negatively.. well.. this IS the DYNA forum (not the softail forum).. but you can have this instead:
