Yessir!
Once upon a time, long ago, people could ride in cold weather without needing plugin electric peter-heaters.
And if anyone's thighs overheated during various sundry activities, you knew for sure that you were having a good time.

 

I know heat isn't a bad thing, but too much heat is. Like you said, the engine has to be built to take it. Any engine in any motorcycle or car has an optimum running temp. Too cold, it won't run right and too hot it won't run right. I see the point you are trying to make, but I don't fully agree with what you are saying. If heat wasn't bad, there would be no liquid-cooled engines. Running rich can cause damage just as running too lean can cause damage. You want your bike or car to have the optimal air/fuel ratio to run in that perfect heat range. Maybe you do need a tuner, maybe you don't. But I'll stick with mine to ensure my bike runs right with the balance of performance and cooling. I know sitting in traffic on my 103" on a hot day definitely robs me of power until it cools down.

 

American Iron Magazine over time has had articles that identified that a tune was not needed. Last year they took a stock new HD ran it on the dyno then added a high flow breather and ran a dyno. Finally they added a high flow exhaust and dyno'd it.

Each mod showed a hp increase and the 14.6 to one afr individually and combined. In 06 HD identified that their ecm would adjust for the emmisions compliant afr regardless of the mod.

The main mod that a tuner provides that HD tunes do not is changing the emissions compliant afr to a power (and cooler running afr) usually in the area of 12.5 to as high as 13.8(Xied). 12.8 to 1 with Cobra.

By the way the hotter the engine the faster it wears. Metal exists in three states solid, liquid and gas. The difference between those states is temperature. Air cooled engines last about half as long as water cooled engines for one reason only the hotter running air cooled engine wears out faster from its higher operating temperature.

12/5 to 1 is not rich it is the optimum afr for easy ignition and complete burning which provides the most power. Since the beginning of gas powered water cooled engines 160 degree thermostats and 12.5 to one was the gold standard until the late 50's when folks went soft and wanted warmer car heaters. Earlier they were even optional! For that reason cars went to 180 degrees. Then in the mid 70's for lowering emissions they went to 195 and some as high as 215. Pressurized radiator caps were a recent development to raise the boiling temp above 212 so they wouldn't boil over.

14.6 or 14.7 to one is called "lean burn". It is harder to ignite and burns hotter but the benefit is less emissions. That makes our government happy. Well at least until they add more stringent requirements every few years.

At another time I will tell you how to run a lean burn engine a little cooler, get a tad more power and more mpg while keeping the engine emissions complicate for the time when we will be required to test annually. I have been messing with engines since 1956.

 

Well, I am absolutely sold on my combination of DK heavy breather / Big Shots Staggered / XIEDs and FuelPak. I was able to ride this weekend for the first time with everything bolted on, and the bike is definitely running cooler ( and more power).

I don't have any fancy equipment or laser thermometers, but compared to before when shutting the motor off, the noises the motor makes cooling off (clicking, tingling, popping, etc) is drastically reduced both in volume and duration. It ain't rocket science. This bike is running infinitely cooler with the tuner than without.

I wish I had done this 8k miles ago when I got the bike used.

Hope this helps.

 

I don't buy it for a couple reasons.

First. Logic learning software almost always has limits to its self-adjusting ability. This is built in as a safeguard to prevent catastrophic failure from inputs accidentally learned during extreme or abnormal conditions. In the case of EFI tuning, these limits would be +/- air/fuel ratios, and +/- timing advance/retard. These adaptability features exist to compensate for many things. Different fuels, altitudes, operating temps, operating humidity, engine loads, etc. The +/- tolerances are still limited.

Second. Infinite learning ability implies that the system can adjust to any mod within the physical limitations of the system (throttle-body airflow; injector fuel flow.) these systems either don't have infinite learning, or, they don't learn fast enough to prevent damage. Ask anyone who has ridden for miles, days, or weeks with a bad tune. Bad tunes remain bad until you flash them (flash tuners) or fool them (piggyback tuners or Xied type devices.)

I can see these systems adapting to a new intake and maybe even exhaust without an outside influence simply based on the built-in adaptability features, but if these systems had infinite learning, people could pump compression, displacement, valve opening, and airflow without adding a tuner. I don't believe it, and I won't until I see it.

 

Not necessarily true! In multi-cylinder engines where design of the cooling system causes strong temperature deviations between cylinders, it is often the coolest cylinder which wears the fastest.

The main connection between water cooling and longevity is that water cooling makes it easier to keep engine temperature within a narrow range (not to cool and not too hot). Rather than engine temperature being at the mercy of air flow and air temperature, it is themostatically controlled, for best wear, and more consistent fit between moving parts. Better control of engine temperatures (and fit between parts) also contributes to lower emissions, higher efficiency and better fuel economy.

Hmmm, depends on what you mean by "rich" and by "complete burning". Ratios around 12.5 to one tend to use more of the available oxygen, but result in incomplete burning of the available fuel. Availability of oxygen is usually the limiting factor when it comes to power (common performance modifications such as bigger cams, better flowing heads, and supercharging work by helping the engine to ingest more oxygen). It is comparatively easy to get more fuel into an engine. That's why mixtures used under high-power are prioritized to use all the available oxygen (rather than all the available gas), even though a lot of unburned gas will go out the exhaust. The benefit of this extra fuel largely disappears under low-power cruising conditions, except that it provides a little cooling (which usually isn't needed under cruising conditions), for the same reason that spraying a little water mist into the intake would provide some extra cooling. It cools by evaporation, and isn't actually used in the combustion process.

"Lean burn" typically refers to much higher fuel/air ratios, like around 18 to 1, where there isn't enough fuel to use all the available oxygen. Around 14.6 to 14.7 is usually called "stoich", and is the theoretical ratio where all the gasoline and oxygen are completely used.
Wikipedia actually has some pretty good information on "lean burn", if anyone's interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_burn

 

 

Iv been a mechanic long enough to know that a mechanics opinion doesnt mean ****. You have master techs who can pass a test but not know a thing in real life. Never take any mechanics word as truth but as his opinion. I dont care how good you think they are. The only real experts are the engineers and even they are questionable at times. I ran an air cleaner and exhaust for a few days with no tune. When i finally got my PCV tuned in i started pulling on all my friends in straight line runs. Even pulled my friends LR who is a much better rider than i am and he weights 70lbs less than me. Hes stage 1 no tune.

Its your bike, do what you want with it. My PCV at least pulls codes. I pull codes on friends bikes and they pay me in beer. Eventually itll pay for itself. I also like being able to use it to trouble shoot by seeing engine temp, batt voltage, throttle position etc.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

All sorts of people in here trying to justify not spending the money on a tune.