Ultima 107" motor on a 90 model Bagger
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
I tried the supertraps but wasn't happy with them and ended up ordering the RB racing black hole. http://rbracing-rsr.com/lsr21blackhole.htm they take a while to get as they custom make each pipe by hand but it's an awsome "quiet" deep throated rumble.
The RB Racing did look good and we may end up with the Black Hole model but I especially liked the idea of a real time gauge for the air/fuel ratio. I really want the gauge, but don't think I can get that for Christmas. It may all need to wait until spring.
The previously ordered the Vance and Hine true dual header pipes arrived and I tried using them with the Harley touring mufflers. The sound level was acceptable but I did not like the additional vibration from the true duals at low rpms, and it did not run as well - perhaps changing the jetting on the carb would get fix some of that. On another forum a fellow is selling stock header pipes and shields off an '08 glide and I hope to buy those and hope they fit OK. If so, they will also have the bung for the O2 sensor which the gauge from RB Racing uses. I do like the look and fit on the newer V&H pipes, the old stock pipes for the 80" did not fit very well on the 113. I also purchased a set of CVO mufflers on Ebay designed for a 110" engine. It will probably be a week or so before the new pipes and mufflers arrive and with the winter weather it makes it more difficult to do any kind of riding, but the cooler weather does help keep the heat down during the break in period.
I still did not get the MSO from Jireh, so I sent an email to Jireh to find out why it is taking so long.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
Classic beast: I am definitely getting the air/fuel ratio meter for Christmas and a little excited to experiment with it. I know guys with a lot more experience than I have don't need meters but I need all the help I can get.
A few years ago I had my stock 80" put on a dyno at a Lancaster Harley Davidson dealer in Pa. to set up the carb, it cost me $500.00 and it ran worse when they were finished than when I took it in - the worst part was at one point they tried to tell me it was better, even showed me a run report to prove how much more power it had. However, they screwed up and forgot to delete the date the run file was created which was about 2 months prior to me taking my bike in for the tune up. Since that experience, I no longer trust the dyno runs - yes they can be helpful but they can also be deceiving, they can manipulate it to make you think anything they want.
A few years ago I had my stock 80" put on a dyno at a Lancaster Harley Davidson dealer in Pa. to set up the carb, it cost me $500.00 and it ran worse when they were finished than when I took it in - the worst part was at one point they tried to tell me it was better, even showed me a run report to prove how much more power it had. However, they screwed up and forgot to delete the date the run file was created which was about 2 months prior to me taking my bike in for the tune up. Since that experience, I no longer trust the dyno runs - yes they can be helpful but they can also be deceiving, they can manipulate it to make you think anything they want.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
Pajoe,
You obviously had a bad experience with a crook dealer. It is the dealer you should not trust, not dynos. Dynos are machines, not crooks!
I have only recently had my first experience of using a dealer with a dyno and they did a great job on my new S&S 107. Now I have 5,000miles up I will be going back for more, if only to see the latest figures.
Don't turn your back on dynos just because of that one experience.
You obviously had a bad experience with a crook dealer. It is the dealer you should not trust, not dynos. Dynos are machines, not crooks!
I have only recently had my first experience of using a dealer with a dyno and they did a great job on my new S&S 107. Now I have 5,000miles up I will be going back for more, if only to see the latest figures.
Don't turn your back on dynos just because of that one experience.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
grbrown,
I remember an ad for an indy shop that told potential customers to bring their latest dyno report along with them and that particular indy shop will do a dyno run to show them what power they really have, and also show them the improvements after they finished. During the conversation with the fellow at the indy shop that did the top end on the 80" evo, he told me they can manipulate the dyno any way they want and some shops do play with the numbers to make the customer feel better. I got the impression from the two different indy shops and the personal experience with an authorized Harley Dealer the manipulation is fairly common. Well, at this point in time, I don't need to know exactly how much power is being made, and I don't need the dyno run report to make me feel better, I just want to know what the air/fuel mixture is close to correct and the real time gauge for $300.oo is a lot cheaper than the $500.00 I previously paid.
on edit:
If I ever bump into someone close to home that I can trust, I may have it professionally tuned on a dyno.
BTW:here is an interesting link on dyno tuning:
http://www.*****************/forums/dr...g-numbers.html
I remember an ad for an indy shop that told potential customers to bring their latest dyno report along with them and that particular indy shop will do a dyno run to show them what power they really have, and also show them the improvements after they finished. During the conversation with the fellow at the indy shop that did the top end on the 80" evo, he told me they can manipulate the dyno any way they want and some shops do play with the numbers to make the customer feel better. I got the impression from the two different indy shops and the personal experience with an authorized Harley Dealer the manipulation is fairly common. Well, at this point in time, I don't need to know exactly how much power is being made, and I don't need the dyno run report to make me feel better, I just want to know what the air/fuel mixture is close to correct and the real time gauge for $300.oo is a lot cheaper than the $500.00 I previously paid.
on edit:
If I ever bump into someone close to home that I can trust, I may have it professionally tuned on a dyno.
BTW:here is an interesting link on dyno tuning:
http://www.*****************/forums/dr...g-numbers.html
Last edited by pajoe; Dec 15, 2008 at 05:19 AM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
pajoe,
Take your bike to any meet that DR Dyno is at, He will get it running right. If you want to wait until Americade at Lake George, NY We reserve a large block of time for our customers, so if you can make it we can squeeze you in. He is very reasonable and you get a "no bull$hit" tune" Fred is among the best, tell him what you want and he will tune for it and leave the bike rideabl!
Take your bike to any meet that DR Dyno is at, He will get it running right. If you want to wait until Americade at Lake George, NY We reserve a large block of time for our customers, so if you can make it we can squeeze you in. He is very reasonable and you get a "no bull$hit" tune" Fred is among the best, tell him what you want and he will tune for it and leave the bike rideabl!
Tourer
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
From: Maine
Pajoe,
Is the new motor not running good? I can't imagine it is off at all. My 113 was good out of the box. Plugs were gray to white colored and if you look a few pages back, you will see my dyno run. Out of the box 114 hp and 119 tq. I didn't change a thing until this fall when it cooled off. I went up on the jet. 175 to 185. Outside of my lifter problems, which Ultima took care of, the motor is on the money. Carb is what the factory set it at. The exhaust that I am running are Pythons. I added a Kerker 2 into 1 that made the bike quicker and peel the back tire faster. It was just to quiet, so I put the Pythons back on. By the way, I use Pennzoil 20/50 and I change it every 2000 miles.
Good luck with the new motor and do you have any pics of your bike?
Is the new motor not running good? I can't imagine it is off at all. My 113 was good out of the box. Plugs were gray to white colored and if you look a few pages back, you will see my dyno run. Out of the box 114 hp and 119 tq. I didn't change a thing until this fall when it cooled off. I went up on the jet. 175 to 185. Outside of my lifter problems, which Ultima took care of, the motor is on the money. Carb is what the factory set it at. The exhaust that I am running are Pythons. I added a Kerker 2 into 1 that made the bike quicker and peel the back tire faster. It was just to quiet, so I put the Pythons back on. By the way, I use Pennzoil 20/50 and I change it every 2000 miles.
Good luck with the new motor and do you have any pics of your bike?
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
Thanks to all, we just don't live close enough to Lake George, NY to consider it, but I will keep an eye open for Dr Dyno. I can't say our bike Needs a dyno tune, it's just one of those things that helps provide added insurance.
After I installed the Vance & Hines true dual headers along with the Harley touring mufflers I did start getting some popping out the exhaust on deceleration as well as some coughing from the carb making me think it might be a little lean, but I am not sure if I am going to keep the true duals - they do look and fit nicer than the stock '90 headers. I want to try headers off an '08 next and after Christmas will try using the 4" CVO mufflers with Fullsac 1.75 baffles. - I am guessing the jetting may need changes with the different exhaust systems and I hope having a working air/fuel ratio gauge I will be able to keep track of what is going on.
I did finally get the MSO, about 2 months after the sale.
After I installed the Vance & Hines true dual headers along with the Harley touring mufflers I did start getting some popping out the exhaust on deceleration as well as some coughing from the carb making me think it might be a little lean, but I am not sure if I am going to keep the true duals - they do look and fit nicer than the stock '90 headers. I want to try headers off an '08 next and after Christmas will try using the 4" CVO mufflers with Fullsac 1.75 baffles. - I am guessing the jetting may need changes with the different exhaust systems and I hope having a working air/fuel ratio gauge I will be able to keep track of what is going on.
I did finally get the MSO, about 2 months after the sale.
Last edited by pajoe; Dec 16, 2008 at 03:39 AM.
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: Richmond BC.
The best use of a dyno for tuning is as a comparison, do a base run then start to tune and compare the numbers to the base run as a confirmation that your heading in the right direction. If they have an eddy current dyno then it can be tuned for steady state tune but not many of those are available due to the expense. Most are inertia or Salvisberg roller type dynos where HP is calculated based on how quick a heavy drum can be accelerated great for measuring acceleration but not good for trying to tune at a steady speed while adding load. A good dyno operator can tune your bike to perfection even with the inertia type and some are very talented.