Ultima engines your results
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 56
Likes: 1
From: georgina ,Ontario Canada
Thanks Panshovevo , mines a 99 and I'll look into it at s&s.
It all sounds a little complicated to me lol
I don't think I would bore it all the way as far as I can go. I want more power but want it to be reliable as well .
Thats why I was reading this thread because in my experience when ya start squeezing the ponies out of the motor things start going wrong .
Have to price things out or go all the way and buy a brand new bigger motor ?
Joe
It all sounds a little complicated to me lol
I don't think I would bore it all the way as far as I can go. I want more power but want it to be reliable as well .
Thats why I was reading this thread because in my experience when ya start squeezing the ponies out of the motor things start going wrong .
Have to price things out or go all the way and buy a brand new bigger motor ?
Joe
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: SE Florida
If you have the bucks to buy a new, quality motor with a good warranty, then that is the way to go. If not, then, as previously suggested, you can build yours sequentially.
If you should decide to go the stroker route, and think you will later add the big bore cylinders, you can bore the cases while they are split for the flywheel assembly installation, and still run stock bore cylinders until you are ready for the change. Later Evo cylinders are located on the case by shoulders on the studs, so it doesn't really matter what size the spigot holes are.
That way, when you were ready to add the big bore kit, you wouldn't have to split the cases again.
I say again, the 96" setup for Evo engines has proven to be reliable. The only problem is that the increased power available is hard to resist... and the urge for more can become an addiction.
Edited to add that if you have a Bridgeport mill and a boring head, you can bore the cases yourself. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you can just bolt down your engine stand , angle the head of the mill, align it, and cut away. How do I know this??? Well, let's just say that I could have paid someone with a case holding fixture about 5 times over, if I valued the time I spent aligning the machine to the cases... but by god, they are perfect!
If you should decide to go the stroker route, and think you will later add the big bore cylinders, you can bore the cases while they are split for the flywheel assembly installation, and still run stock bore cylinders until you are ready for the change. Later Evo cylinders are located on the case by shoulders on the studs, so it doesn't really matter what size the spigot holes are.
That way, when you were ready to add the big bore kit, you wouldn't have to split the cases again.
I say again, the 96" setup for Evo engines has proven to be reliable. The only problem is that the increased power available is hard to resist... and the urge for more can become an addiction.
Edited to add that if you have a Bridgeport mill and a boring head, you can bore the cases yourself. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you can just bolt down your engine stand , angle the head of the mill, align it, and cut away. How do I know this??? Well, let's just say that I could have paid someone with a case holding fixture about 5 times over, if I valued the time I spent aligning the machine to the cases... but by god, they are perfect!
Last edited by Panshovevo; Oct 30, 2011 at 10:17 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 212
Likes: 1
From: Florida Space Coast
Motor Quality
Panshoevo.
I have to disagree with you on one thing. The motors from Ultima are rock solid and the parts are of a pretty good quality, however, the folks that build them need to be better qualified and some quality inspections need to be done during build. I think that is where the problem comes in, you get what you pay for, parts good - Workmanship crappy!!
If you read Johns blogs; he says that they pull them apart just to check all clearences/tolerences before handing them to customers. I wish I had listened/realized what he said in his posts.
I have two of them now and will go back to the first one and build it the way it should have been done to begin with.
I have a buddy that had over 90k on a 113 when it started making noise, I think most of the problem came from folks not having knowledge/quality inspections.
John, I hope you read this cause I need to ask you some questions. You called me last December and I have the same number.
I have to disagree with you on one thing. The motors from Ultima are rock solid and the parts are of a pretty good quality, however, the folks that build them need to be better qualified and some quality inspections need to be done during build. I think that is where the problem comes in, you get what you pay for, parts good - Workmanship crappy!!
If you read Johns blogs; he says that they pull them apart just to check all clearences/tolerences before handing them to customers. I wish I had listened/realized what he said in his posts.
I have two of them now and will go back to the first one and build it the way it should have been done to begin with.
I have a buddy that had over 90k on a 113 when it started making noise, I think most of the problem came from folks not having knowledge/quality inspections.
John, I hope you read this cause I need to ask you some questions. You called me last December and I have the same number.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,812
Likes: 0
From: Ak-Tenn
120 cubic inches of steaming......... Sorry. That goddamn thing runs like crazy WHEN it runs. I just hate that I can't depend on it - at all. And I'm a long distance trip kind of rider. Whatever.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
My buddy has a 113" Ultima in his '92 FLHS and has had some problems. He lost a cam bearing, had a lifter go bad that took out some other parts, and a piece in the primary came loose and got in the chain, locking up the engine. After watching his experiences, I think I would spend the extra grand and get an S&S. They've been doing it for a long time and should have the bugs worked out.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 462
Likes: 1
From: Arizona
All have problems
Well I had over 200,000 miles on my stock Evo when she started to knock really bad. Bought a RevTec 100" and ran it for around 60,000 (Hard) miles before the main bearing started falling apart. Now I have a 107 Ultima with over 6,000 miles and no problems so far. One of my brothers has an S&S 111 in his bager with the "smart" ignition and he had to change the lifters at 10,000 miles. He has a chopper with the S&S 96 and has had no ploblems so far (not as many miles on it) A mech friend of mine with many years exper. says they all have there problems. When I say "hard" miles, we run the intersate at 80 to 100 mph in temperatures over 100 degrees F. Not to mention Red light racing sometimes. My opinion, buy what you want, break it in correctly and do the maintenance.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
We have our 113" Ultima a little over three years and maybe 20 -25 thousand miles. I lost the paper with the mileage at the engine swap, so I am not sure but the bike has over 131 thousand.
It has worked out about every 10,000 miles I replace the lifters, I am not sure what is wrong, suspect there is leftover trash in the oil system from the first time but really do not mind changing lifters so I do not get too excited about it. I think it's better just to change lifters every 10,000 miles or so than worry about it.
A couple things I observed with ours was at idle when everything is just right the Mikuni carb will develop slide rattle which can sound like a lifter tapping but it goes away as soon as you open the throttle. Slide rattle usually happens when people are around. Slide rattle is not too unusual for Mikuni flat side carbs.
I was doing oil analysis and it seemed every time the iron level went above 50 ppm a roller bearing in one of the lifiters was going bad. With our Ultima engine I need to change the oil often, 1500 miles to keep the numbers looking Ok. The numbers seem to jump up more quickly at 2000 miles. The oil looks good but analysis shows it has contaminates, which will work as an abrasive causing more wear.. I definitely will not use synthetic oil with long intervals between oil changes, better to buy the cheaper oil and change it more often. I did not use magnets because that would change the results of the analysis, but when they recommended 1500 mile oil changes I stopped sending in oil samples, and added a magnet.
In three years, I changed rocker supports, roller rockers and shafts; one cam, 2 sets of lifters and went to the thicker pushrods. I am using Harley lifters now. The only complaint I have concerns obtaining parts, Jireh sells Ultima parts at a good price, but they rarely have the parts I need in stock.
It has worked out about every 10,000 miles I replace the lifters, I am not sure what is wrong, suspect there is leftover trash in the oil system from the first time but really do not mind changing lifters so I do not get too excited about it. I think it's better just to change lifters every 10,000 miles or so than worry about it.
A couple things I observed with ours was at idle when everything is just right the Mikuni carb will develop slide rattle which can sound like a lifter tapping but it goes away as soon as you open the throttle. Slide rattle usually happens when people are around. Slide rattle is not too unusual for Mikuni flat side carbs.
I was doing oil analysis and it seemed every time the iron level went above 50 ppm a roller bearing in one of the lifiters was going bad. With our Ultima engine I need to change the oil often, 1500 miles to keep the numbers looking Ok. The numbers seem to jump up more quickly at 2000 miles. The oil looks good but analysis shows it has contaminates, which will work as an abrasive causing more wear.. I definitely will not use synthetic oil with long intervals between oil changes, better to buy the cheaper oil and change it more often. I did not use magnets because that would change the results of the analysis, but when they recommended 1500 mile oil changes I stopped sending in oil samples, and added a magnet.
In three years, I changed rocker supports, roller rockers and shafts; one cam, 2 sets of lifters and went to the thicker pushrods. I am using Harley lifters now. The only complaint I have concerns obtaining parts, Jireh sells Ultima parts at a good price, but they rarely have the parts I need in stock.
Last edited by pajoe; Dec 20, 2011 at 09:43 PM.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
PaJoe and others, if you grenade any part of your engine you should clean it thourghly and use a magnetic filter (Bikers Choice has them) as they are well worth the little extra expense. We use them on most of our bikes. Also a lot of lifter failures are caused by binding in the valve train from insuffecient clearances. Check out the lifter to lifter block clearance with the lifter on the toe of the cam, sometimes the lifter can actually hit the bottom of the block. Next look in the rocker box and make sure you have more than enough retainer to guide/seal clearance along with ensuring that you don't have any coil bind. These are the ereas that usually cause repeated lifter failures. Hope this helps.
John
John
