this ones throwing me for a bit of a loop.

to start:

swapped starter relay (had a spare)
double checked for loose connections/wires, couldn't find any
starter itself is a brand new AllBalls 1.4kw
bendix/ring gear original, and while not perfect, still have plenty of engagement surface (got a bit chewed up with this latest grinding)
when I installed the bandit clutch and hub, I had to space my compensator out another 0.060" (0.080" total), to get the primary chain within spec for alignment
battery cables are brand new (2mon. old), battery is about a year old, and passed load testing 2 months ago (same time i replaced battery cables chasing a different issue)
engines an S&S 124, 10.8:1 compression, and the ACRs are functioning normally


so the issue. bikes completely broken in now...so started looking into getting it running tip top. pilot jet was definitely too large (.33), could smell fuel @ idle and stuttered a bit rolling on the throttle slowly (idling in place you can hear it stumble a touch). pulled the flat bowl, swapped the pilot jet to a .31 (didnt have a .32 handy, do now, but ill adjust as necessary) and started it up. worked perfectly....got mixture screw pretty well dialed in, adjusted idle, and shut it down. cleaned up the tools, and rolled the bike down the driveway to go out for a rest run. hit the starter button and heard a horrible grinding noise. (tried a couple times to get it fired up, to no avail. well ****.


pushed it back up the driveway, and figured with that kind of noise, something broke. drained the primary fluid and saw some specks...didnt wanna risk it, so pulled the outer primary and found a whole bunch of misc metal bits floating around (most of which were bits of chrome/aluminum from a small section I didnt clearance for the bandit clutch....they clearanced themselves pretty quickly apparently)

i know its not "good" to do, but hit the starter button with the primary off just to see what's happening.

the jackshaft pops out and engages the ring gear, spins it maybe 1/2 a revolution (only moving the ring gear 3-4") and pops back inward (this is where the grinding noise is coming from). the inward edge of the ring gear is getting a bit chewed up, and the jackshaft gear is noticeably rounded on the outside edges.

this much damage/wear COULDNT have happened that quickly (not in the 15-20 seconds total i tried to start it so i didnt have to push it up the driveway)...so i'm trying to figure out how/why this happened now (really, why it started in the garage totally fine...not a peep...and went full-retard 90 seconds later)

 

Incompatible parts are what i would check first.
Check the numbers for compatibility on what you have installed that are new to the bike.
The starter system is not correct and is grinding metal into the primary case.

 

nothing in particular is "incompatible". the bandit clutch requires a fair bit of clearancing (once you see their pressure plate and hub you know why)...and the starter is an OEM replacement (and all the intermediate components like the clutch hub, starter gear, etc, are all original to the bike)


everything has been functioning perfectly for months, and all went to **** in an instant. I just cant figure out where it came from.

 

I thought you were saying this problem occured after a recent starter system overhaul and i understand that now you are saying all was well for a few months and it has just now crapped out and left metal shavings in all the wrong places ???
Need more details .

 

will know for sure tomorrow after work (just got back from Ohio this morning). likely suspect in the starter clutch/drive/sprague/whatever its called now.

waiting on a call from AllBalls about warranty (the starter was bought brand new 2 months ago). hoping they'll just send me the part instead of shipping the starter back and forth. for now, the original OEM starter is going back in so i can get back on the road

 

tech/spec question (cant find it in the FSM anywhere)

clutch hub basket: have pressure plate taken out, and I can grab the ring gear/outer hub and get a 1/16-3/32" play.....only in and out....no side to side play, no rocking, and clutch hub nut is tight


this normal? or is my inner bearing roasted? never heard it make a peep (although i'll admit the pipes arent exactly quiet). just going through everything while its open (putting the stock starter back in for now, gonna wait to see what AllBalls says about a warranty claim)

 

well, a bit of in and out play may be normal...but after pulling the frictions/steels out, theres a LOT of side to side rocking/play. luckily my indy was still @ the shop, so I dropped the hub off tonight (hes gonna rebuild it tomorrow morning).

ring gear was toast. 1 section with 4 teeth completely sheared. Primo 10/84 going in in its place.


so the question now is what happened first / what caused what.

 

Had some side to side play on mine, did the AllBalls bearing on the clutch.

Also replaced the starter/clutch gearing years ago with a in between stock and 10/84 ratio but the 10/84 has some thick teeth on it so can see your thoughts on this one. The stock ring was ate for lunch by another engine with 10.5-1 compression and a nasty failure, put a aftermarket system on and held up on that engine plus 2 more with compression so tighten up that clutch hub with the aftermarket ring gear and wouldn't look into it any further.

Read your directions on the ring gear install, the bevel side goes on for clearance reasons

 

may have found at least part of my issue

double checked FSM too, because Id thought this was too much space before

rivera instructions say double check air gap between pinion gear and ring gear. range is 0.080-0.125" (optimal being 0.100")

mines at 0.360" .... d'oh

even FULLY engaged (like pulled out PAST where the starter button will send it), the pinion gear only ever contacts ~ 50% of the ring gear. i guess it was a ticking time bomb.

luckily i have some steel stock, and a buddy with a CNC lathe (overkill for this). gonna make a .480" OD x .240" spacer with a 1/4" hole bored through the center for a jackshaft spacer (will be installed in the coupler between starter and jackshaft...leaving .020" for an additional snap ring as a retainer to keep the spacer in place if/when i have to pull the starter


the excessive air-gap between pinion and ring gear




fully extended (and then some)

 

I wonder why it was off so much.

About a month ago I killed my starter drive gear and ring gear.
I replaced them with a Rivero Primo 10/84 replacement set.

One of the first things I did was measure it and it looked off but when I hit the start button they lined right up.