Counter-steering
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,730
Likes: 9,163
From: Georgia
You mean the same bar, right?
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 27
From: Calgary eh
I learned counter steering on the ice, at 80 mph. And when you're flat tracking you pull back on the right bar to turn left. No pressing. Riding on the ice is super cool,jget going in top gear, full open on the throttle, you start pulling the right bar, the rear wheel will drift out to the right and the bike leans to the left, you go left. When you get good at it you can keep pulling that bar all the way to the stop. I wonder how many people reading this have ever experienced going full throttle in top gear with the bars turned all the way to the stop. Literally going sideways across the ice.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 27,097
Likes: 4,676
From: Frozelandia, Minnysota
I learned counter steering on the ice, at 80 mph. And when you're flat tracking you pull back on the right bar to turn left. No pressing. Riding on the ice is super cool,jget going in top gear, full open on the throttle, you start pulling the right bar, the rear wheel will drift out to the right and the bike leans to the left, you go left. When you get good at it you can keep pulling that bar all the way to the stop. I wonder how many people reading this have ever experienced going full throttle in top gear with the bars turned all the way to the stop. Literally going sideways across the ice.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 35,506
Likes: 27
From: Calgary eh
Closest I've come to it was doing 60 mph donuts in loose dirt on a real smooth field. When you find that balance point, get the speed up, and do a few donuts before backing off, it's kind of exhilarating. That was a long time ago before numerous injuries and about 50 lbs more weight, wouldn't try today. Well, on 2 wheels; I've done donuts recently in snow with a sidecar rig, but that not skill, just hanging on.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 16,017
Likes: 7,139
From: Sandy Eggo's North County
Make sure when you teach in your classes that your students understand what you mean when you say "push left go left, push right go right". Make sure they understand that you mean push forward, not push down. You cannot just say "push left go left push right go right" and leave it to the students to figure out what direction in which to "push" the handlebar. I am positive that some of your students will think you mean to push DOWN, when, in fact, you mean to push FORWARD!
But yes, I meant "push forward" just enough to deflect the bars slightly. I've had students on the range "lock" their bars to one side when practicing the demo. I have them "square" the bars and give a very "slight" press (forward) to the grip in the direction they want to go. At the speeds we have on the range, the bikes are very easy to initiate lean.
However, run the speeds way up (like on a track) where 150+mph isn't unusual, and not only does "pushing" become a chore, but "pulling" the opposite grip help keep your butt on the seat. At those speeds, initiating a 45 degree lean quickly requires effort. Do this lap after lap, and you'll have a workout by the end of your 20 minute session. Guarantee it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 13,105
Likes: 13,049
From: Texas, USA
I like to save the cobs for when I run out of toilet paper. I keep them in my outhouse.Make sure when you teach in your classes that your students understand what you mean when you say "push left go left, push right go right". Make sure they understand that you mean push forward, not push down. You cannot just say "push left go left push right go right" and leave it to the students to figure out what direction in which to "push" the handlebar. I am positive that some of your students will think you mean to push DOWN, when, in fact, you mean to push FORWARD!
When riding at slow speeds, let's say under 20 mph, to make a turn you simply turn the handlebar in the direction you want to go. There is no leaning at slow speeds.
At higher speeds, let's say over 20 mph, to make a turn it is a combination of a force on the handlebar and leaning. The force you apply on the grip is the same force you would use if trying to turn the handlebar with one hand. You can call it pushing, pressing, etc. Apply the force using the hand in the direction you want to go. The combination of the force on the handlebar and leaning is called countersteering.
If you want to go left, apply the force on the grip with your left hand and lean. If you want to go right, apply the force on the grip with your right hand and lean. The greater the force and the more the lean the more aggressive the turn. If you are turning too much reduce the force and don't lean so much.
Even easier, make a one handed turn at 30+ mph. If it's a left handed turn hold the handlebar with your left hand only. If it's a right handed turn hold the handlebar with your right hand only. When in the turn you will lean and apply a force with your hand. That is countersteering.
It's that simple. Go out and practice. You may want to consider taking the basic rider course again to help reinforce basic skills. There's no point in learning advanced skills if your basic skills are rusty.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 16,017
Likes: 7,139
From: Sandy Eggo's North County
The problem I have been noticing is that when I am on the highway and going around a somewhat gently curve, I am having to slow the bike down in order to lean it. But on the highway I do not want to slow down while going through these gentle curves. On my old bike, which was lighter and had a higher center of gravity, I could push down on the bars (push left go left, push right go right). That was not working for my new bike. I was actually doing the countersteering incorrectly but getting away with it.
But now I am thinking, and I will practice this soon, that if I push forward and not down, I will be able to start the lean without having to slow down, which is what I want to do while on the highway.
Also, just as side note, I was also refreshing my knowledge about wobbles today and I realize ( hopefully correctly) that there is a link between wobbles and countersteering. When we push left to go left we are shifting the center of gravity to the left that is why we fall or lean left when we do it.
I think that what we are doing when we countersteer is we are initiating a controlled wobble.
Of course we are not intending to wobble, we are just intending to shift the center of gravity. In a wobble, the center of gravity is constantly oscillating left and right. I posted another video in another thread that shows us ways to get out of the wobble by shifting our weight on the bike.
The front tire's contact patch continuously oscillates back and forth to maintain balance on all motorcycles regardless of speed or lean angle.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 410
From: Puyallup, WA
I learned counter steering on the ice, at 80 mph. And when you're flat tracking you pull back on the right bar to turn left. No pressing. Riding on the ice is super cool,jget going in top gear, full open on the throttle, you start pulling the right bar, the rear wheel will drift out to the right and the bike leans to the left, you go left. When you get good at it you can keep pulling that bar all the way to the stop. I wonder how many people reading this have ever experienced going full throttle in top gear with the bars turned all the way to the stop. Literally going sideways across the ice.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,012
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From: NC
*snip*
Also, just as side note, I was also refreshing my knowledge about wobbles today and I realize ( hopefully correctly) that there is a link between wobbles and countersteering. When we push left to go left we are shifting the center of gravity to the left that is why we fall or lean left when we do it. I think that what we are doing when we countersteer is we are initiating a controlled wobble. Of course we are not intending to wobble, we are just intending to shift the center of gravity. In a wobble, the center of gravity is constantly oscillating left and right. I posted another video in another thread that shows us ways to get out of the wobble by shifting our weight on the bike.
Also, just as side note, I was also refreshing my knowledge about wobbles today and I realize ( hopefully correctly) that there is a link between wobbles and countersteering. When we push left to go left we are shifting the center of gravity to the left that is why we fall or lean left when we do it. I think that what we are doing when we countersteer is we are initiating a controlled wobble. Of course we are not intending to wobble, we are just intending to shift the center of gravity. In a wobble, the center of gravity is constantly oscillating left and right. I posted another video in another thread that shows us ways to get out of the wobble by shifting our weight on the bike.