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LOLZ....yeah...I mean if the guy has been riding he should already know most of this....trying to hash out how to ride and saying that us explaining someone what counter-steering is on a forum is dangerous is kind of ridiculous...just go out and ride the thing and actually look at what you are doing...if you successfully maneuvered any turn over 30 mph you have already counter-steered but didnt realize what you were doing...so pay attention to what you are doing and quit worrying about if your brand new Harley emblazoned leather Jacket, Chaps, Boots, Helmet, and gloves look cool or not....:-D
LOL, that's what I was thinking. This is making my head hurt!
The way counter-steering is currently explained (anywhere even in the MSF course) is not complete. Something is lacking. For instance, do we counter-steer through the entire curve? If so, does that mean that our front tire is always pointed in the opposite direction to the direction the bike is actually going? Or do we just counter steer to lean the bike in the direction we want to lean and then we steer our wheel in the direction we are going. And how in the world could just "looking in the direction we want to go" cause us to steer in the right direction? We have to steer the bike and steering and looking are two totally different things.
Dude, go watch some guys who ride fast and watch what they do with their heads, what they do with their bodies, and watch how the suspension works on a bike....you ABSOLUTELY go where you LOOK when you are riding a bike....any instructor worth a **** will absolutely tell you to look where you want to go, NOT where you are actually going when you are going through a turn....go watch the videos of the Police Officers going through the cones, you will see them turning their heads every where and looking through the turns they are making... The number one reason guys crash in the turns in the mountains is they panic in a turn and start staring at the end of the road and ride straight off of it whereas if they would have looked through the turn and accelerated they would EASILY make that given turn....but dont take my word for it, go ride and try it. try looking straight ahead and go into a turn as see how that works out for you....
When you are on a motorcycle your WHOLE BODY is controlling the bike and its lean angle...not just your hands on a steering wheel or hands on a set of grips...and where you are putting your focus of vision is a HUGE input into the performance of the bike....if you dont realize this then maybe you should get off this forum and start riding a bit more until you do realize it...
unless you are just trolling my posts....
And to your other question, your tire is perpendicular to your forks...in a high speed turn its inline with the back tire and your lean angle is actually making the turn, (along with your front suspension and the driving force of the rear tire) Counter steering is a constant amount of pressure on the bars that is setting your lean angle against the force of inertia and centrifical force that is wanting to stand the bike upright and make it go straight....the more pressure you apply, the more lean angle you can achieve and the tighter the turn OR the faster you can go through same said turn...(ie the faster your bike is going, the more pressure you need to apply to achieve the same lean angle) (ie it takes far more pressure and lean angle to go through a turn at 90 mph than it does 30 mph because there is far more force trying to force the bike upright and to go straight)
I rode a 100 miles this past weekend. I love riding my bike. But, and this is a big BUT, I know you should never take anything for granted on a motorcycle. And, I am a bit of a nerd and I like to understand things, and quite franckly, counter-steering through a curve is a hard concept to explain. It is harder to explain that it is to do. I think, that it can be explained better (even in the MSF courses). As I said, when I took the course, I thought they wanted us to press DOWN on the handlebar not forward. I am sure I am not the only one who misinterpreted this.
So true, the time given on this topic for new rider training leaves it low priority. It's struggle enough just learning the controls. My wife just went through it. I started riding moto-cross back in the late 60s and learned it the hard way. Didn't have a clue what it was called, but it worked!
You want to "Learn" how counter-steering works then go read this book....granted its written by a guy who rides sportbikes, but all laws of physics apply to all motorcycles...and its the best book ever written about how to control a motorcycle on the street or on a track
Thank you very much for those videos, they are both GREAT! That is exactly the kind of explanation that I needed. I understand it now. I always knew that I needed to understand this better in order to avoid obstacles at high speed. To be truthful, I was never truly confident that I could avoid an obstacle at high speed. I think now I will be able to master it.
I am saving links to both of those videos on my computer. I think that the forum should make a sticky for your post.
OK, this is giving me a headache. I started riding 49 years ago without knowing about this. Would you say push left to turn left is equivalent to leaning left? Because that's how I always thought about it.
So true. I did not start riding 49 years ago probably closer to 40 but if folks made riding sound as difficult back then as some do now I may never have even tried LOL.
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