When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Yes it is still gouging, but if I have to explain that you need more help then I can offer. (No one has to buy at gouging prices but the dealers or a lot of them are doing it)
Sorry you don't understand.
A dealer source has told me about ecms being locked and not able to be accessed by anyone but a dealer on 23 and up.
Just like John Deere had been for years.
just saying what I've heard. If that is not dictating what you can do with your over priced purchase i don't know what is.
Again I take all with a grain of salt but nothing will surprise me
We'll have to disagree about price gouging. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. The market price is the market price.
Everything else in your post is speculation, not something to get spun up about if you ask me, but some folks are wired up, I guess.
Well, on the discussion of the pricing, there's more than Harley to blame.
First and foremost, Harley new policy of reducing inventory to add value to the motorcycle was part of the Rewire and Hardwire strategy, so the outcome of prices rising up are in part for this reason. Add to the fact that the dealers have even less inventory due to supply chain issues that's affecting every business....So here part Harley, part Covid to blame.
Second, Harley eliminated any discounting that the dealer network were doing to sell their extra inventory....this was true in here in Brazil, where the assembly line would put 5000 bikes over a year and to be able to sell the whole production, each month the dealers would discount a specific model....now, this has been completely eliminated.
Add to the fact that the MSRP is a SUGGESTED retail price and dealers are free to price whatever they want to....and you're not being coerced to buy, you can always walk away and try to get a better deal elsewhere. The prices are up because there are people buying the bikes.
Harley strategy aims to become "the most desirable motorcycle" and I would say that limiting production and therefore the dealer's inventories is playing into that, but they do know there's a huge demand for the bikes, making the price go up (and their profit as well).
This is basically being back into what happened in the 90's, but at that time HD didn't have the production capacity that they do today.
Well, on the discussion of the pricing, there's more than Harley to blame.
First and foremost, Harley new policy of reducing inventory to add value to the motorcycle was part of the Rewire and Hardwire strategy, so the outcome of prices rising up are in part for this reason. Add to the fact that the dealers have even less inventory due to supply chain issues that's affecting every business....So here part Harley, part Covid to blame.
Three reasons for the reduction in productio
At the start of COVID/etc/etc they had nearly eighty thousand unsold bikes across all lines. As recently as the 2nd quarter reports that was only down to just under thirty thousand bikes across all dealers world wide; they don't break it out.
Next we have COVID and the supply chain and work issues where it was not always an option to run the factory because of covid restrictions, deliver bikes to dealers, or even sell them.
Supply chain. Simply put Harley did not diversify their supply chain properly or sufficiently and as such got stuck real fast when one or two if not more failed to deliver. This is all on Harley.
I know their CEO speaks about driving up the prices and such and making Harley the most desirable brand but that is all double speak for one simple fact. They cannot or will not fix the issue where their audience is aging and their pricing is deterring newer riders from becoming customers. Harley has been suffering year after year after year declines since their peak over a decade ago. There was a slight bounce in 2021 as compared to 2020 but everyone knows 2020 was an aberration but more telling is 2021 was still a loss from 2019, they were down 18,000 units from 2019!
Third quarter reports in October will be very interesting. HDFS already is seeing losses and budgeted for larger ones. Rates for HDFS financing are up to 4.75% this year and expected to rise even more this month.
That article is reading a whole lot into a little blip on an accessory gas cap, so -- take it with a grain of salt (or an entire salt lick).
If there is a 975 though, that would make a perfect companion to what I'm hoping for, a lightweight street-only touring bike, similar to the (not-available-in-the-USA) Honda NT1100. The NT1100 is where they took an Africa Twin and street-ized it, making what pretty much every review is calling the most comfortable touring bike ever. It's not a "sports tourer", it's a GT, with less emphasis on sport, it's a commuter, sports bike, and tourer, according to them.
All that at under 525 pounds.
Take that concept, but add Harley's expertise in long-distance touring (and a belt drive), price it reasonably, and I think that'd be a verrrry interesting model.
No idea if they'll do it or not, but I'm hoping. It could be like an R1250RT, but without those big huge cylinders blocking your legs. And 100 pounds lighter. And with a Revolution Max engine, it'd be fast as hell. And being street-only, it won't have an astronomical seat height.
Last edited by FatBob2018; Oct 4, 2022 at 03:01 PM.
That article is reading a whole lot into a little blip on an accessory gas cap, so -- take it with a grain of salt (or an entire salt lick).
If there is a 975 though, that would make a perfect companion to what I'm hoping for, a lightweight street-only touring bike, similar to the (not-available-in-the-USA) Honda NT1100. The NT1100 is where they took an Africa Twin and street-ized it, making what pretty much every review is calling the most comfortable touring bike ever. It's not a "sports tourer", it's a GT, with less emphasis on sport, it's a commuter, sports bike, and tourer, according to them.
All that at under 525 pounds.
Take that concept, but add Harley's expertise in long-distance touring (and a belt drive), price it reasonably, and I think that'd be a verrrry interesting model.
No idea if they'll do it or not, but I'm hoping. It could be like an R1250RT, but without those big huge cylinders blocking your legs. And 100 pounds lighter. And with a Revolution Max engine, it'd be fast as hell. And being street-only, it won't have an astronomical seat height.
I'd like to see a 975cc Pan America "pavement adventure" bike with a 17" rear wheel and a 19" front wheel, built to compete with Triumph's 900cc Tiger GT, which is on my short list of next bikes, possibly to replace my Road King.
A Rev Max Touring or Sport Touring bike would be something totally different.
I like my Road King but I'm not going to cough up $20+ Grand for a newer version of it. My next new bike will be a more modern design, and I'm an old guy.
The new colors or new models won't matter to me. I'll never buy a new Harley again. I don't see the value in it compared to pre-owned low mileage garage queens. I might be interested in the 2023's sometime after 2028.
That article is reading a whole lot into a little blip on an accessory gas cap, so -- take it with a grain of salt (or an entire salt lick).
If there is a 975 though, that would make a perfect companion to what I'm hoping for, a lightweight street-only touring bike, similar to the (not-available-in-the-USA) Honda NT1100. The NT1100 is where they took an Africa Twin and street-ized it, making what pretty much every review is calling the most comfortable touring bike ever. It's not a "sports tourer", it's a GT, with less emphasis on sport, it's a commuter, sports bike, and tourer, according to them.
All that at under 525 pounds.
Take that concept, but add Harley's expertise in long-distance touring (and a belt drive), price it reasonably, and I think that'd be a verrrry interesting model.
No idea if they'll do it or not, but I'm hoping. It could be like an R1250RT, but without those big huge cylinders blocking your legs. And 100 pounds lighter. And with a Revolution Max engine, it'd be fast as hell. And being street-only, it won't have an astronomical seat height.
Except for the seat height... I can ride a R1250RT quite easily but the Honda is just too tall.
I would love to see a Harley take on the R1250RT... belt drive of course
The new colors or new models won't matter to me. I'll never buy a new Harley again. I don't see the value in it compared to pre-owned low mileage garage queens. I might be interested in the 2023's sometime after 2028.
One thing I noticed when looking at pre '09 TC 88s is that all of the low mile "garage queens" have box stock engines. This means that the new owners will have to do some mod's or pay to have them done. A stock 88 to me is almost un rideable because of how bad (lean) they run and how underpowered they are. I look at those bikes to gauge the market value for mine.
NEW is the only way I'll buy a bike. The value in it is that I have been its only owner and that every mile on that bike has been put on by ME.
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Slideshow: The bar-and-shield logo shows up on far more than motorcycles, some of the company's most unexpected products have nothing to do with riding.
Slideshow: From the troubled AMF years to modern misfires, these bikes earned reputations for reliability issues, questionable engineering, or disappointing performance.
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Slideshow: The Swiss custom shop has taken a Harley Softail and stretched it into something so long and low that it looks closer to a rolling sculpture than a conventional motorcycle.
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Slideshow: A standard cruiser becomes an intricate metal canvas in the hands of a Swiss custom house known for pushing Harley-Davidson platforms far beyond their factory brief.
Slideshow: Harley-Davidson's challenges aren't abstract; they show up in dropping shipments, shrinking dealer traffic, and strategic decisions that aren't yet translating into growth.
