The reason I had to take the ERC in the military was that since 2001 350 troops were killed, and nearly 1000 injured in motorcycle accidents. The Basic MSF riding course is a requirement for members of the military, so most, if not all of those killed had taken that course.

 

I took the MSF course for a different reason than those mentioned. I wanted to learn to drive a motorcycle but we didn't own one at the time that was small enough for my 5'1" self to feel confident. We didn't want to go to the expense of buying one and then finding out I didn't really like it. The MSF course provided nice little 125's and 250's for the class. I was hooked. We went right out and purchased a used 250 which I road the whole next summer. Then I was ready for an upgrade so I got a new Suzuki S50 (800cc) (traded the 250 for almost what I paid for it) which I had two years. Now I'm moving up to a Nightster - Woo Hoo!

 

BadBoy,

I think we would all agree that the course alone does not prepare a rider for the road. But my argument (can't speak for the others) is that it teaches you the basics. To truly prepare a rider for the road would require a much longer class than would be practical. I took a1/2 semester of classroom driving instruction in high school and was required to have (if I remember correctly)8 hours ofhands on driving instruction to obtain my standard license in Virginia, then had to take the written and practical exams administered by the state. . . and I wasn't fully prepared.However, it gives the rider a strong foundation that they can buildon and buildingon the correct technique is always better than building on incorrect techniques. I always find it amazing that professional athletes spend the majority of their practice time working on the fundamentals of heir respective sports so I find it impossible to believe that the MSF class would be "useless" to all experienced riders.The fact that several experienced riders have stated that they learned things in these classes have proved the "useless" contention false. If the class was useless for you then I would say that you are the exception and not the rule . . . impressive!

 

I'm not saying the Basic course is not a good thing in and of itself. I'm just saying that it shouldn't suffice for a motorcycle endoesement. As for the ERC I would have to wonder what the term "experieneced" means to each person. Other than trying to get me to hold my wrists in a totally un-natual position, they didn't have me do anything I hadn't already done many, many times through the years (I already knew how to run over a 2X4). Perhapse they should combine the two? Still, do they teach students how to counter-steer at speed? Do the teach stopping/parking uphill/downhill? Do they teach stopping in the middle of tight courners? You bring up a good point too about driver ed. When I took it, it was for the whole summer, and it was fairly comprehensive. I don't know what has happened to it, but maybe we should re-think that one too.

 

and this is different from a 16 yearold getting his/her lic.?

 

I would put the Basic Rider's course quite a ways ahead of the drivers ed training my kids had to take in Montana. I think they got to drive a car for about 15 minutesmaybe 5times. And it is far above what many states require for a motorcycle endorsement. Montana consisted of about 4 right turns and one left with a wide weave on one straight and a stop on the other. Don't dab too many times or don't fall down and you're good to go. Some states are more some less, so I really think that their acceptance of a riders course is a huge step over just taking the gimme state test. And by the way, I think that every state requires you have a current drivers license before handing you a motorcycle endorsement, so I'm not quite seeing the loaded gun analogy. I never had a problem failing those that could not cut it or excusing folks from a class based on too slow or lack of basic skills necessary to safely continue with the rest ofthe class. Once excused they were offered a later class (one time offer) if they could prepare themselves a bit or we offered their money back if they were in excused the first day. Also cost wise, Harley, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda and probably others will pay for at least part if not all the cost on MSF courses when you purchase a bike. Some shops, even do it for used bikes. Military installations pay for all military and government employees and even a few companies will contribute toward a course. If you're a new rider and it costs too much, I guess your health isn't worth much to ya anyway, huh!
I too was in the military (26 years) and those guys were our worst students. Partially because it was no money out of their pocket, so no vested interest. Also because MOST of them were already riders but inour class to fill the square (military requirement) and MANY, thereforeabsolutely positivethere was nothing they could or wanted to learn. So they didn't!
I taught the course for several years followedlater as a shop supervisor and eventually a First Sgt helped pick up their broken bikes and bodies because they thought they were invincible just like they did when they entered the class to fill that square. As stated in the MSF courses, we can introducethem to a safe approach to motorcycling, but is is up to the student to determine how much risk he or she is willing to accept and interject into their riding habits. I still think it's better than 4 rights, a left, a weave, and a stop. Sorry, I'm a bit passionate about motorcycling and keeping it safe enough to keep the government out of it. I'll fall off my soapbox now.

 

When i got my first bike i was in the Navy and was required to take the course. Its probably a good thing i was. That was 8 years ago. Never been in an accident thank God but have had close calls. Ridden in the traffic of L.A. and San Diego and on pretty desolate roads in the canyons and loved every minute of it. Maybe one day ill write my own Tales From the Road book.
Anyway I do think its a good idea to take the course.

 

It's not the course, it's the student's fault. Whatever gets you to sleep at night.

 

Bad Boy,
You know, I have refrained from saying it thus far, but you are one of those guys I have been talking about. You know; took the class cause you had to and already knew more than anyone there so there was nothing they could teach you. Early on you said something about the instructors shouldn't even be teaching because they had been down once. That's just BS. A lot more folks have been down once than haven't and that don't make them any worse rider than you. Maybe it makes them better because they actually learned something from it. Last 4 years I taught we did in fact teach braking hard in a 90 degree turn in the basic course at about 25-30 mph and again in the ERC at 35-45 mph. Both to the left and right BTW. The military over the years have adapted some of their own versions of the MSF courses so I guess they left that out of yours. ERC by the way is just an opportunity for someone who has at least 6 months experience to come back and do pretty much the same things they did in the basic, but now on their own bike and at a little higher speed. MSF doesn't advertise it as anything more than that. Unless you are paying the big bucks as they do for the race schools you aren't going to get someone being paid 10 bucks an hour and a college accepting $100-250 for a student to accept responsibility/liability for higher speed training. Most of the courses are chalk lined out in a parking lot somewhere too. The courses are a service, a courtesy for those who see a need or benefit. The only folks I've seen make it mandatory is the military, but they also had anti-suicide training and driver's training and ............. Sorry you had to suffer through it all. And I caught your wise crack about Martyrdom. I was merely making a point that most people teach those classes because they enjoyhelping new prospective motorcyclistsand see it as a useful service, sure as H not because it pays great or is just getting to ride around on the range all day. It's a lot of freakin work especially when some thankless personcops an attitude which disrupts those that are actually in the class to learn something.

I still work on a base and I can tell you for a fact most of those crashes in the military, past and present,weren't because of lack of basic skills or training: it was from stupidity. I still today, as I have for years, see our young idiots doing wheelies down one of our busiest6 lane streets in the middle of town at rush hour. I processed numerous tickets and handled disciplinary measures over and over for numbskulls getting tagged at over 100 MPH on bikes, in government vehicles and POVs. My experience tells me that I can pretty comfortably state that of your 350 killed and 1000 injured thataround40% of them were alcohol related. A surprising number of injuries are on borrowed or unregistered (on base) bikes so saying most of these folks had the trainingmay bestretching it a bit. Several were not wearing helmets, even though military regulations have required it for over 30 years. Training or lack of had little to do with your statistics.I was deeply enough involved inmany incidents as a 1st Sgt for over 7 years and some of that in a Law Enforcement Squadron that I'm pretty confident in my assumptions. The course never taught anyone to wheelie into the **** end of a car and then get run over by traffic behind. It never mentioned that you can have a few beers and still ride like a Pro. I don't even remember briefing the class that exceeding the speed limit or your own skill levels was acceptable upon completion of the course. It's a cheap introductory BASIC or an even cheaper Refresher ERC course. You can get your license from most states in 20 min or less whether you take a course or not. Don't read this wrong, I am proud of our military and the prfessionalism 98% of them have, but alot of those accidents (which is still less than 1% of the bike riders in the military) were not lack of skills as much as plain poor judgement.

I sleep just fine every night.

 

I have to agree with Moonrunner. Never been down dosen't mean you're a great rider so much as it means you're lucky. And this is from a rider who has never been down. And i agree riders should be trained and licensed just as you have to earn a license to drive.