Are you breaking the Flag Code?
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 2
From: Novi MI
It still is a Federal Law, as pointed out. Title 4 United States Code 1, and especially Section 7 and Section 8. That makes it law. However, there are no enforcement sections attached to 4 USC 1, meaning that even if someone was arrested for violating the law, tried and found guilty, there are no penalties.
"The Code is designed “for the use of such civilian groups or
organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one
or more executive departments” of the federal government."
"no federal agency has the
authority to issue “official” rulings legally binding on civilians or civilian groups.
Consequently, different interpretations of various provisions of the Code may
continue to be made."
Thus you can ride wearing a leather jacket with the U.S flag facing the wrong direction on your back, like Wyatt in Easy Rider, you cannot be legally stopped nor arrested by any law enforcement agency for wearing the jacket. Nor on your helmet or fuel tank.
Last edited by barjbar; Oct 11, 2012 at 07:13 PM.
Supporter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,724
Likes: 234
From: Altoona, Pa.
I do feel it is wrong to use a actual flag to makes garments or likewise items of. But to have a shirt imprinted with the stars, stipes and the union is mean to be worn to show pride in our flag. Respect is behind it all.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,476
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Not for civilian or civilian groups which is the context I was referring to. It is not "illegal" to have a U.S. flag towel, chair, etc. as the op stated. The code is for the proper procedures for government agencies.
Sorry, I have to disagree that the code is not for civilians. It is for everyone, government and civilians. Various executive departments may write their own regulations that are in addition to the USC. The DOD and the various services have their own regulations/general orders pertaining to the flag/ensign.
"The Code is designed “for the use of such civilian groups or
organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments” of the federal government."
And there is the proof that it is for civilians. If a civilian group/organization uses the flag they should follow the code, but they do not have to follow any regulations/rules designed by any of the executive departments.
"no federal agency has the authority to issue “official” rulings legally binding on civilians or civilian groups. Consequently, different interpretations of various provisions of the Code may continue to be made."
This is correct up to a point. I'll agree with this statement as pertaining to the flag; as an example, a civilian group or individual does not have to follow the Department of the Army's flag rules. However, taken in a broader context, and nothing to do with the flag, I'd hazard a guess that the federal agency known as the EPA adopts rules that become part of the Code of Federal Regulations and these are binding on civilians.
Thus you can ride wearing a leather jacket with the U.S flag facing the wrong direction on your back, like Wyatt in Easy Rider, you cannot be legally stopped nor arrested by any law enforcement agency for wearing the jacket. Nor on your helmet or fuel tank.
Sorry, I have to disagree that the code is not for civilians. It is for everyone, government and civilians. Various executive departments may write their own regulations that are in addition to the USC. The DOD and the various services have their own regulations/general orders pertaining to the flag/ensign.
"The Code is designed “for the use of such civilian groups or
organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments” of the federal government."
And there is the proof that it is for civilians. If a civilian group/organization uses the flag they should follow the code, but they do not have to follow any regulations/rules designed by any of the executive departments.
"no federal agency has the authority to issue “official” rulings legally binding on civilians or civilian groups. Consequently, different interpretations of various provisions of the Code may continue to be made."
This is correct up to a point. I'll agree with this statement as pertaining to the flag; as an example, a civilian group or individual does not have to follow the Department of the Army's flag rules. However, taken in a broader context, and nothing to do with the flag, I'd hazard a guess that the federal agency known as the EPA adopts rules that become part of the Code of Federal Regulations and these are binding on civilians.
Thus you can ride wearing a leather jacket with the U.S flag facing the wrong direction on your back, like Wyatt in Easy Rider, you cannot be legally stopped nor arrested by any law enforcement agency for wearing the jacket. Nor on your helmet or fuel tank.
In the end I like this statement from The Congressional Research Service:
Therefore, actions not specifically included in the Code may be deemed acceptable as long as proper respect is shown.
Last edited by pococj; Oct 11, 2012 at 08:28 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 2
From: Novi MI
I said the code is for civilians and civilian groups that's why I put the quote in. It's saying it's a guide, not a federal law - there are no "policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision" when applied to civilians. When I said it's not for civilians I meant it cannot be enforced. I can fly the U.S. flag under the State of Michigan flag at my home and a police officer could stop by and tell me it's improper, it violates the flag code, but he can't make me switch it because there is no LAW against it. If I worked for the state of Michigan and put the flags up in that order at a government building, I would have to switch them. The code must be followed by government agencies as stated in the Flag Code. It is a federal law in this context because it is a "rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority". There is no need for enforcement by judicial decision.
Last edited by barjbar; Oct 11, 2012 at 09:32 PM.
Road Master
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 935
Likes: 2
From: Upstate NY
To the OP, my post or should I say analogy, was only to demonstrate that times change and so do socialy acceptable practices.
And to your original question, yes I'm sure I am in violation of the flag code from time to time. I do however, take my hat off at the ball park when they play the National Anthem.
I'm betting you were a hall monitor in school. "Hey, no running in the hall! You are in violation of hallway code 23, sections 2 and 4"
Last edited by Rick-e; Oct 11, 2012 at 09:15 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Houston
Does it make a difference if my flag is made in China?
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,302
Likes: 275
From: Milton, Delaware
Not many people know, or follow, other parts of the code.
I.E.,
A flag may not be flown between sundown and sunup, unless it is illuminated during those hours.
I have a neighbor who has had a flag on her fence post for as long as I've lived here. It is not illuminated, but it is always kept neat and clean and is replaced frequently. I have no problems with the lack of night lighting.
When displayed, the blue field must always be in the upper left corner as viewed by the intended audience. (I've actually seen several occasions of an improperly displayed flag in government press releases on TV. )
I.E.,
A flag may not be flown between sundown and sunup, unless it is illuminated during those hours.
I have a neighbor who has had a flag on her fence post for as long as I've lived here. It is not illuminated, but it is always kept neat and clean and is replaced frequently. I have no problems with the lack of night lighting.
When displayed, the blue field must always be in the upper left corner as viewed by the intended audience. (I've actually seen several occasions of an improperly displayed flag in government press releases on TV. )
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,250
Likes: 0
From: París, TX
I get annoyed when people leave the flag up all night, or when it's storming. I get really annoyed when I find one in a pile of trash. But I do have shirts dyed like the flag. I think the key is respect, as has been pointed out. I have thought for years that it's weird that it's an insult to burn
the flag, and also the respectful way to destroy it. Interesting thread.
the flag, and also the respectful way to destroy it. Interesting thread.