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Hacked, Conversions and Trailering"Harley Sidecar, Conversion Trikes and Motorcycle Pull Behind Trailering Enthusiasts"
A forum for the discussion of your sidecar, Conversion Trike or Pull Behind Motorcycle Trailer.
First, let me proudly display my newest "rig" She is not my first in the last 22 years of sidecars, but this is an absolute dream to ride. DMC Classic on a 2009 Dyna 2009 Dyna with DMC Classic Alli-Gator's first ride 6 Months old.
So Now to the real reason for the post.
I recently was helping a friend who had purchased a Watsonian GP700 ("The Monster"). We installed this to a 100th Anniversary Harley Sportster. (I have experience with the GP700 from Watsonian on a Triumph Thunderbird. A great sidecar for travelling, wife and dog)
Bike lean out is 7/8"
Toe In is 1"
Lead is 14 1/2" (Because of where the front lower mount must be, with no further adjustment available, the lead is over 14")
"Rig" runs OK, but just OK. Heavy to steer. Does not pull right or left much, just low speed wobble (10-15 MPH) and heavy, heavy, heavy.
So, the owner, a friend, my doctor, is not a huge guy. The wobble, and heaviness seems to bother him enough to take away some enjoyment.
Do you think a next step would be....Steering Damper? Steering Rake modification? Or do you have another suggestion?
Rake tree will just make steering lighter not do much for low speed wobble. Steering Dampener will help. You may need to make an extension to get that lower rear mount back farther. Had to do that with the one on a 750 Street.. One inch Toe may be a bit much.
lean should be 1-3 degrees most of the time so that when rider sits on the bike it comes back to zero. First thing I would do is the Dampener. It make a lot of difference on the 1996 FB with low speed wobble. It is not dangerous, just spooky at first. . Smaller light bikes can often do with out a raked tree. This is a bracket that was make in rought form for the Street. It mounted to exhaust mount and ran forward to foot peg mounts Took a hour to make once it was what was needed welded all seams. Did something like it on the FB also. The lower rear mount needs to be as far back as you can get it and a close to straight across from the frame. 14 1/2 inches is a bit forward of the rear tire but some thing you may getaway with. Generally farther back the more stable at slow speed the farther forward the better at high speed.. It would be great if it was one hard fast rule for everything , but it don't work like that.
Looks good, it does not always go prefect first ride out the door
[url=https://flic.kr/p/243vMkq]
Last edited by smitty901; Dec 31, 2018 at 05:45 PM.
Hey thanks for the input. I just spoke to the fellow. I went camping over Christmas, he went around the block a thousand times or so. Ha! He says it feels better to him. He is not a huge guy. For me, I have ridden worse, and owned better. I did not see a big problem. I just wrenched it around. The GP700 is a BIG sidecar. It always felt pretty heavy for me. I was just hoping to make his first experience a little better.
I was thinking of the damper first, but I have never owned one on any sidecar. I have no experience with it.
The lean out is good, I think the old rule is something like 1/2 inch approximates 1 degree.
I have thought of fabricating something for that front lower mount. (Thanks for the picture). I would need to get around the exhaust.
The rear lower comes from the rear most part of the frame, angles downward under the exhaust, then over to the block. The way Watsonian attaches leaves little room for adjust ability. The tube is captured by a squeeze block that holds the tube 90 degrees from the sidecar. I would need to set up some angle-dangle-sort of mount. I think NOTHING is impossible in the sidecar world. (Ha, I remember riding from Texas to California with a bungee cord wrapped around my footpeg and handlebar as kinda of a old school damper).
Thanks again
Watsonian "Block" system. Not all is shown. One tube cutout goes over the sidecar tube frame, then a perpendicular tube cutout captures the tube coming from the bike.
Keep at it. Tweak one thing at a time. I think the Steering dampener is an add on you will find worth it. IF you look at that bracket Took the mount bolt out drilled and welded it to the one I made after It was lined up. If you don't screw up a bit now and then you are not trying hard enough, or you been at it so long it is no fun anymore. Another nice thing about being retired plenty of time to do it over . Not like you have to leave it as is and go to work.
This one has all the options , even heated seat. ECC. It was worth every dime and minute of time. Except the AC now way that was going on it
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2bUwCdh]
Last edited by smitty901; Dec 31, 2018 at 07:59 PM.
Ha, great input! right about the retired bit. This friend I am helping is also my VA PTSD doctor. I think he thinks I am crazy! Wait! I am crazy! Anyway, I retired at age 50 so I have a long history of having enough time on my hands. That was going on 20 years ago. This year marks 49 years continuous Motorcycle indulgent, with 22 or so sidecar. It has indeed been a journey. Just my soap box, but seems so many newer riders just are not interested in how it all works, or more, how to make it work. I appreciate your voice and advice on here. Ya got me thinkin.....might need to fire up my Miller!
Ha, great input! right about the retired bit. This friend I am helping is also my VA PTSD doctor. I think he thinks I am crazy! Wait! I am crazy! Anyway, I retired at age 50 so I have a long history of having enough time on my hands. That was going on 20 years ago. This year marks 49 years continuous Motorcycle indulgent, with 22 or so sidecar. It has indeed been a journey. Just my soap box, but seems so many newer riders just are not interested in how it all works, or more, how to make it work. I appreciate your voice and advice on here. Ya got me thinkin.....might need to fire up my Miller!
My first retirement was the Army . found a new life then retired from that. Motorcycles are one of my vises will always be. sidecar are a lot of fun.
The fellow I am helping ordered a steering damper from Amazon. Today, I helped with the install. I test drove the rig before and after.
The Before: I did not really detect a huge wobble. Seemed pretty mild, and as usual very predictable. Maybe my old crippled body does not bend so much as to notice things like this anymore. I, like many of us, have been around when dirt bikes had steel fenders (until they had no fenders). Flat tracks were for turning left only (unless you had a real big wobble that slapped the tank to the right, then you were mostly off to the hospital in a 4 wheel vehicle. I took the bike to around 70 MPH and threw it into corners. It all went pretty well. (I realize the words "Pretty Well" in the context of sidecars, sometimes means....I survived!
The After: I have to admit, the shimmy, that I did not notice was less noticeable. Actually I have to admit, it was a better experience overall.
Conclusion: I got back on my Dyna rig and scrubbed down the street. I think that their might be a place for Dampers. I doubt I will install one on my rig presently, but I will be more open to the idea in the future. The fellow who owns this Watsonian rig is ecstatic. His level of "Sidecar Joy" has increased 10 fold. That is never a bad thing.
Looks good. lot of ways to install a dampener . On larger rigs they use to use ones from a VW and connect it to the sidecar frame. If you look at the front of the hack the rod you see is connected to an auto type dampener that runs to the front tire .
Wish I had a better picture of it.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/HTnGsK]
Last edited by smitty901; Jan 13, 2019 at 05:57 AM.
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Any ideas?
