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Reoccuring problem, very expensive...

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Old Apr 15, 2015 | 08:42 AM
  #11  
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im
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On the forum welcome page there is an electrical section that is sometimes useful.
Based on the information provided, i would guess voltage regulator but i would prefer to test components.
You state that a Harley tech tested the battery at 14.2 volts when the battery was replaced before this incident.
Since we were not on location it would be difficult to know if the 14.2 was measured at the battery, while running and above idle.
We would not know if the voltage was maintained throughout the RPM range, while at idle or at high idle or while going down the road. See answer from Cobra1 at response #9 above for clarification.
For example there are bikes with bad regulators. Those regulators failed once the motor maintained steady cruising RPM. At idle they were fine at first...
Someone that reviewed the system at idle would have been given a false impression.
Rather unusual for a Harley tech to NOT (did they check?) have reviewed the stator AC voltage also(yes AC voltage) considering the substantial amount of damage.
Did someone check?
The stator puts out AC voltage, then it goes to the regulator and you can measure DC voltage at the battery with a digital voltage meter(not the dash gauge).
Did someone check?
It would also be unusual for a Harley tech who observed such a substantial amount of damage to not review the wires that exit the stator for rubbing or missing insulation.
Did someone check?
It would suck for an AC spike from missing insulation on a wire to occur from a bump/rub.
It would be odd for them not to review the wire connections to the voltage regulator.
Did someone check?
I would guess someone has opened one of the covers on the primary side to sniff for some burning at the minimum.
If it was my bike i would have removed the primary cover and looked around.
This is done when you have a charging problem as a curbside check of the stator.
When the bike is not charging the burned stator stinks-up the oil bath in primary.
I would have run a review of the stator for shorting (stator itself shorting) and for AC voltage.
Did they check?
I would review the wires to the regulator and to the battery (looking for cuts/insulation/connections) .
Did they check?
I would run a DC voltage test from the battery at all RPM ranges.
I would attach a digital voltage meter to the battery and tape it to the bike while i ran it up,down and around the neighborhood.
Did they check?
How are those wires from the stator exit from the case to regulator (trapped?, cut?, missing insulation?)
Did they check?
I would also guess that there are no aftermarket, not straight from the factory electrical components added like heated gloves, heated grips, heated jacket, amps etc.
Trying to rule-out a system overload that might have contributed to a damaged electrical system.
You state the bike is a 2003 FLHTCI Electra Glide Classic and while we have an idea of modifications, unfortunately we are unaware of mileage (it could be 10K or 100K miles).
It would seem that your bike was sick back in October when the items were replaced.
While we know the length of time from then to this past saturday, unfortunately we do not know the miles...Did the bike sit? did it go on the highway?
We do not know the length of time owned (history) or present condition. For example some bikes are garage queens, some sleep outside uncovered in the rain and snow, others are former wrecks, some are pulled from a lake, some are retired police bikes with many cut wires.
If you need to gain further knowledge there are several youtube videos that detail how to check the systems on your harley with a digital voltage meter...Go to youtube then enter search term harley electrical system
This is a link to some charging system testing information from this forum.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...sting-1-a.html
 

Last edited by im; Apr 15, 2015 at 08:49 AM.
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Old Apr 15, 2015 | 10:36 AM
  #12  
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ILMFBL
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Danm im, I don't even have a problem but still want to thank you for all your time and trouble to write all that! Way above and beyond in my humble opinion.
 
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Old Apr 16, 2015 | 08:54 AM
  #13  
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ChewySav
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IM,
I do appreciate all the help you are giving me but by the questions you are asking, more info is needed. I'm sorry for the book I'm about to write. I am a part time wrench and computer tech for a small shop that opened a little more than a year ago called Three B's Custom Power sports. I worked on Metrics (Yamaha and Kawasaki) till I bought the 2003 Harley in 2011. Replaced the stock cam chain tensioners on the 2003 Harley at about 50K (this was done by a Harley Master tech prior to 3B's opening) and I was tuning with a power commander USB III. Was not getting the performance from the USB III that I thought I should, so I decided to change over to the Dynojet Vision and that was about the time that 3B's opened.
3B's had a MMI Harley accredited Tech working there at the time. I was told that the Vision was not compatible with my bike so decided to go with the Thunder Max. Myself and another rider (2005 88cui Road king with same air, exhaust and cam set up) decided to have our bikes done at the same time. Mine worked the 2005 didn't. After going back and fourth with TMax about the 2005, Thunder Max invited us up to go through the tuner coarse at TMax in September 2014. While at TMax my 2003 was in the R&D shop because there was a turn signal issue (fast flash on left turn and shorted horn relay, both happened after the Thunder Max was installed) and we had a question about the TMax communicating with the TSM/TSSM. We were assured that they didn't communicate.
October 2014 the first melt down happened on my 2003. It was a slow process getting all the burnt up parts replaced (sending the Thunder Max back to them for diagnosis and repair (burnt components wouldn't allow any info to be saved). We were under the assumption that the TSM/TSSM was the culprit of the melt down.
Now to your questions. I did most the work with the new tech at 3B's by my side. The new tech Is MMI accredited and has been working on Harley for 15 years and is Dynojet trained. We reinstalled the Thunder Max and pushed the map into it in January 2015 and the last recorded test run was done 1/28/2015.
When we installed the new battery we checked it at the battery, with a volt meter at 14.2 volts, at raised RPM's (2000 to 2500 RPMs) and the TMax recorded run shows that the battery was reading 13.5 at 3600 RPM's. We did not check the AC output because we thought is was a TSM/TSSM failure and not a voltage output failure and the bike ran until March 2015.
In March, we removed the Primary, Installed the new transmission bearing retro kit, new clutch disc's and heavy duty clutch spring. No smell of burnt anything while doing this process. The bike ran till April 11, 2015 when the second melt down happened.
First melt down October 2014, Running January 2015 and melt down again April 2015. The voltage regulator was replaced previously in 2011 with a regulator from Drag Specialties, then. I am going to run all the test you are suggesting and anything that the Electrical Wiki suggests. If there is anything else I should do please let me know.

Thank you so much for your time.
 
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Old Apr 16, 2015 | 09:24 AM
  #14  
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im
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Look at the stator and look at the voltage regulator.
To me it looks like the voltage regulator was the problem but i would look at the stator really well to make sure it has not been damaged/burned.
You describe an over voltage situation and this could have been caused by a leak thru of the regulator..failed to control surge or allowed ac voltage to pass.
Electrical components are sensitive to over voltage situations.
Note: Do not jump start from another vehicle that is running.
 
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Old Apr 19, 2015 | 01:51 PM
  #15  
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ChewySav
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im or anyone,
I'm going to begin the testing of the electrical system and wire inspection Monday. I am waiting for the replacement TSM/TSSM to do the AC voltage tests. If the Stator is bad I'm considering going to the 45 amp system. What is the difference in the different amp systems and how can someone identify if the larger systems may have already been installed? I see nothing in the OEM parts lists to indicate this difference. I'm looking at the listings on Ronnie's site and it lists the rotor as Part 9/11 but no part 9 description.
http://http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=443&b=11&c=0&d=2 003%20FLHTCI%20ELECTRA%20GLIDE%20CLASSIC%AE%20%28I NJECTION%29%20%28FF%29%20ELECTRICAL%20-%20ALTERNATOR%20W/%20VOLTAGE%20REGULATOR
 
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Old Oct 29, 2015 | 08:24 AM
  #16  
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Sounds like my problem also. Out for a ride on 2003 Dyna Super Glide after replacing a dead battery, after a few km's the Speedo/Odometer died, and shortly after that the motor died. After investigating, found TSM/TSSM, ECM/Ignition Module, Speedo/Tacho, and most of the lights all gone.
Traced it to the Regulator putting out way over 15volts. No idea why it failed, but also finding replacement parts difficult to say the least.

Is it possible for a battery charger to damage the regulator?
 
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