The spark adjustment feature of the PV works well.

 

Guys and gals....keep this in mind when running an "open loop" map. Taking the O2 sensors out of the loop removes the self adjustment ability from the ECU to adjust for temp swings and in particular significant changes in elevation. A great open loop tune for sea level will not work so well in the mountains and vis a versa.

Personally, I have taken a map from DJ and just adjusted my VE table. The DJ map keeps the bike mostly in closed loop (although richer than stock) in most areas of the map we use when riding.

After adjusting my VE tables, I see a significant change in how the bike sounds, how hot it gets and how much power is available.

The ideal would be to put the bike on a dyno and do the tables above the range of the NB sensors. Next best is to get the AT and do it over time on the street.

I did the street method with a PCV and AT on my last bike during a cross country trip. Everyone from the dealer to DJ was telling me my problem with the engine dying a 4K rpm was due to running too lean and flame out. But, the AT was showing me that I was going super rich. Ended up changing the values at and above 4K to and adjustment with negative values (takes away fuel from the stock map) and then let the AT work out what the bike wanted...took one full day of riding with map changes done at noon and the end of the day. Next day the bike ran fine.

What I may do when I change out the exhaust and cam is have the exhaust fitted with both bungs....buy the AT, tune the VE tables, then sell the AT and recoup some of the cost. Utimately will be cheaper than the dyno and more real world.

DJ created a very powerful tool and in my opinion the best out here for us to use.

 

Actually, I think with the MAP and ET sensors it should adjust just fine for altitude and temp without the use of the NB O2 sensors. Those sensors only work in a very small section of the map anyway. I would think by taking the O2 sensors out you're essentially running a speed density system which has worked well in many applications for years. The NB O2 sensors are only going to work from 14.6-15.2. I know there are plenty of guys using canned maps in the 13.8 range, I was one of them before the PV. I had no altitude issues (at least from 200ft to 4000ft). YMMV

 

Okay i'm trying to setup a pvv file to load in the bike for some tuning runs. I have the map open in the winpv app and have the afr tables and timing settings adjusted. How in the hell do I save it as a PVV file?

 

When you click on "save selected values", it will automatically add the file extension, you just need to tell it where you want it saved.

 

Check out the link in JustDennis' signature. It is to a Word Doc that should get you started. Download the doc for future reference.

 

True. O2 sensors are only 1 piece of the puzzle. All pre-O2 system bikes adjusted for changes in temp and altitude right? Altitude is automatically tracked since atmospheric pressure changes show up at the manifold pressure sensor. The main reason O2 sensors were added was to control exhaust emissions. Open loop maps work well.

 

I installed my PV last June and have learned a lot since then. At least I think so. I made the tuning runs as recommended. As the year played out, I really never got to the point that I thought the VE tables stayed constant from one run to the next. What I think that I learned was that the dew point, altitude and ambient temperature affected VE more than I ever thought. The magic of closed loop is that these adjust for conditions as you ride. And these change a lot in western North Carolina. I finally would only do VE tuning runs when the dew point was 50 degrees and ambient temperature was around 70 degrees. I did that to get it dialed at stable operating conditions.

And then I think that I learned that the spark tables should not be adjusted until you have a stable VE table and a selected AFR table. I think that the engine can stand more spark if the AFR table is running richer. So I set the spark tables for a consistent VE table and for specific AFR tables.

But at the end of the day, I could not really tell much difference with the improved VE table and adjusted spark tables.

So from there I developed four AFR tables with two spark tables. The AFR tables are as follows: a stock table from the stage II download, 14.4, 14.1, and 13.8. I set these tables with the title AFR in the cruising range and increased the fuel at other points in the table. I used the smoothing function to help with the map. Conventional wisdom is that maximum power is from 12.5 to 13.8. Having 13.8 in the cruising range affects fuel mileage and richer in other area improves power when you need it. I also have more aggressive spark tables on the two richer AFR tunes. With space for six tunes, I have room for four diverse tunes based on riding style, fuel octane and ambient temperature.

I went for a ride on Tuesday and in mid-ride I stopped and changed from my 14.4 tune to my 13.8 tune. For the first time, the butt dyno said that there was a real difference. I do not know what the fuel mileage will be but I could really tell a difference in throttle response.

I am curious if others have come to the same conclusion or am I way off base.

So, I have one more unanswered question...Suppose I were to go for a ride with a closed loop tune loaded in the ECM. Then stop and load an open loop tune. If I did not reset the trim tables, would I have a current (adjusted) VE table based on current conditions that would be just right for that day and those conditions?

Note: I constantly get closed loop and open loop confused. One allows for the trim tables to adjust the VE and the other does not. I think I now have it right but frankly, it is 50-50.

 

You guys are correct...map and AT sensor will allow adjustment for altitude. Man, I heard the pop. (head comes out butt). O2 is more for maintaining the emissions vs environmental changes. Brain fart remembering the carb days.

 

Lionville lion. Trim tables are a long term adjustment to how much fuel is needed given feedback from the sensors vs what the ECU calculates based on table inputs (VE vs AFR). The trim table values don't affect VE. However, the VE tables will affect how much trim is required