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Feb 10, 2012 | 10:58 AM

#1741

iclick

Thread Starter

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yardstick

Taking the O2 sensors out of the loop removes the self adjustment ability from the ECU to adjust for temp swings and in particular significant changes in elevation. A great open loop tune for sea level will not work so well in the mountains and vis a versa.

Actually, it does. I'm running open-loop after tuning with the WB sensors, and I watch the Lambda values on the display while riding. They stay very close to those specified regardless of air-temp and altitude thanks to the MAP and other sensors that tie into the ECM's operation.

Feb 10, 2012 | 11:14 AM

#1742

SpinnrUp

Cruiser

Joined: Mar 2011

Posts: 129

Likes: 59

From: Middle Tn

Ion knock control - a little reading for those technically inclined

This is info from 2002 when 1st patented for the MoCo it appears. The basics should still apply.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6386183.html

Feb 10, 2012 | 11:24 AM

#1743

iclick

Thread Starter

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpinnrUp

This is info from 2002 when 1st patented for the MoCo it appears. The basics should still apply.

I'm surprised they have a patent on it, as ion-discharge knock-sensing has been around for at least seven years before 2002, as my present 1995 car has it.

Feb 10, 2012 | 02:39 PM

#1744

SpinnrUp

Cruiser

Joined: Mar 2011

Posts: 129

Likes: 59

From: Middle Tn

Quote:

Originally Posted by iclick

I'm surprised they have a patent on it, as ion-discharge knock-sensing has been around for at least seven years before 2002, as my present 1995 car has it.

Maybe enough difference in approach to make it unique..I don't know.

Feb 10, 2012 | 04:53 PM

#1745

Teardrop

Road Warrior

Joined: Jan 2010

Posts: 1,290

Likes: 20

From: Salem, Or

Quote:

Originally Posted by beasleyiv

I usually shy away from correcting anyone on here, but I know we got some 'green' PV guys keeping tabs on this thread and didn't want them to get confused.

Too late

Feb 10, 2012 | 06:23 PM

#1746

Yardstick

Road Captain

Joined: Aug 2007

Posts: 701

Likes: 72

From: SA TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linville Lion

Okay, Got that, thanks. So if I do not reset the trim tables when loading a new tune, will the trim table continue to adjust based on their prior settings even if the new tune goes from closed to open loop?

I beleve that they would. That is why after I adjust the VEs and load the update tune, when it ask about the trims, I reset.

Because if you don't then, I think the ECU still uses them. But, the only way to know for sure is to get ahold of someone that knows the program embedded in the ECU.

Here is the way, I believe it works. HD runs the engine with stock setup and establishes the VE tables on a dyno...establishing how well the engine breathes. They set up the AFR/Lambda to meet EPA requirements in the "cruise ranges" and wherever else the EPA wants or they have to to meet those requirements. The they establish a base table of how long the fuel injectors need to be open to meet a certain AFR/lambda. The software reads the O2 feedback and establishes a trim for each cell based on the RPM and MAP.

They then take the trims and adjust the time open on the injectors until the tune is where they want it. Those tables then are loaded into the ECU as a stock tune.

Then you got some smart person that either is privy to there ECU/software setup or a great hacker and they created the DV and TTS which allows us to do the same thing...but, by adjusting the VE tables primarily because that is used in the calculations to determine what cell to go to or to actually calculate open time on the injectors. If that is what is happening, then there probably isnt a table of open times on the injectors. Then that would mean the trims are an adjustment to the calculated time open on the injectors.

But, what do we really care? We have an easy to use tool that allows us to map how well our engine breathes with whatever changes we make to it.....and the ECU does it's thing.

That same tool allows us to adjust what AFR/Lamda we want anywhere on the map to obtain the max power, efficiency or engine temp.

Feb 11, 2012 | 11:15 AM

#1747

lhgdale

Stellar HDF Member

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 2,454

Likes: 58

From: Graysville, AL

One more quick question about the knock sensor. Will upgrading to the SE plugs mess with the sensor? I was planning on doing this next oil change. Thanks

Feb 12, 2012 | 09:27 AM

#1748

Nozzleman 216

Tourer

Joined: Sep 2009

Posts: 454

Likes: 0

From: Coshocton, OH

Just ordered my Power Vision. I am excited to start using/playing with it. I am coming from a TTS on my last bike so we'll see how it goes as I really liked the TTS. However, I hated lugging around my laptop when doing v-tunes and is really the ONLY reason I went Power Vision.

I had a decent understanding of how to use the TTS and can only assume the PV should be somewhat similar in some instances. I will do my best to read through and search the thread but I am sure I will have a few questions.

Thanks to all those who have contributed so far!

already have my first question..........I am using a MAC and will be installing windows on it so I can use the PV. With that said, what else do I need? I have Excel (for Mac) and I assuming it won't run when booted to Windows. What exactly is Excel needed for and will I need it to be running at the same time as WinPV?

Last edited by Nozzleman 216; Feb 12, 2012 at 09:49 AM.