I'll second the suggestion to go with the FM tune. With Basic tuning (stock O2 sensors) you can only tune the closed-loop area, but I doubt if you'll see much change in VE values from what you have now. It might be fun to play around with it, though. The O2 sensors will keep it at Lambda .981 (or whatever it is set) regardless, but like Mark suggested tweaking the tune may smooth the work the sensors will have to do.

If you want to play around with changing the Lambda table you can adjust as you wish, but save a copy of the original FM map first for safekeeping.

 

So the remaining issue is how rich to run in the first column...11?, 12?

I haven't investigated decel popping on my bike yet. There's hardly any at higher revs but I get a little from 2200 on down.

This is the fuel map fore the way I ride. Easy for most, but fuel when I lean on it.

Looks like I'll richen my 0% TP and check for decel annoyance.

 

Looking over my past logs I have noticed im getting knock as high as 4 for a short time above 4300 rpms at almost full throttle. Is such a thing even worth looking into? And if so, what measures should I look into for correcting it? I couldnt tell you whether or not I heard or felt it. Wide open and fast im more worried about whats up ahead and keepin it right. If it was a big deal I would notice it, but a small thing I wouldnt probably feel at a hundred miles an hour. There are no knock events anywhere except at this range.
Also, Im running an se intake with the stock cover. Sometimes I run the stock cover if im worried about rain. Some other times I have a homemade decorative plate I bolt onto it and run an open filter. Am I right to assume ve readings would be different from having the cover on as to having it off? And therefore I should do all my datalogging one way or the other? Or would it not make a ****?

 

OK, here's a really dumb question. When looking at the front of my new PV, on the right front there appears to be a symbol that usually means power on/off. When I push this little button, I can feel it go in a little, but nothing happens. The unit automatically comes on when plugged in via USB to my computer or when connected to the ECM of the bike when the bike is turned on. What is this button for????

 

You'll never really use this button. I believe it is only used when resetting the firmware on the unit.

 

You can try to eliminate those Knock readings by raising the VE in any cells over 1. I generally increase the VE by 1% for each unit of Knock in a cell (for example, 4.3 knock = raise VE by 4%). Then smooth out the surrounding VE cells to get a smooth transition. If you've maxed out the VE (127.5) then you can reduce the spark advance in that cell as an alternative approach to eliminating the knock reading.

Generally you'll find the next run will result in less or no knock in the region. But to be honest, I believe the knock sensors on these bikes are hyper sensitive and are not necessarily responding to a real knock event. Others might have more detailed information but I believe the knock sensors are attempting to react to a variety of factors, including sound. So these readings can be particularly conservative and result in degraded performance by sometimes unecessarily retarding the spark advance.

I'm not suggesting to ignore the knock events, but if you're not hearing anything at all with your own ears and your knock sensors are showing relatively modest readings (0 to 2 or 3 degrees), then if you turn off the knock sensors, you're likely to feel a measureable increase in performance.

I'd be interested in other opinions.

 

There seems to be several different philosophies regarding VE settings. Set it based on what the sensors report it should be according to the calculated fuel needs required for a set 14.6 AFR using narrow band O2 sensors. Or set VE to what works for any user applied AFR or knock issue. I received new maps for my bike based on the install of SE255's from highly reputable sources. VE deltas on these 2 maps are all over the place in wide TP and RPM ranges. In cruise range, deltas of 18, higher ranges, deltas of 23. These are not just single cell deltas. Given the same atmospheric environment and no changes in the build, a motor is going to flow the same amount of air. Thus the VE should always be the same for that build and atmospheric conditions.

My thinking is that with a true VE determined, set your desired AFR and let the ecm calculate the fuel required to attain that AFR. Then use the other settings, to adjust for accel/decel and the other non-steady state (cruise) changes/demands on the engine. If you need more fuel in a particular range, adjust the AFR for that range. It ssems to me that adjusting VE is just tricking the ECM to change fuel delivery rates and that the chosen AFR will end up as not being representative of the actual AFR.

And a question, between these 2 maps I have deltas on gear ratios and engine displacement as well. I'm no where near maxing out on VE's. One vendor when questioned suggested that I leave them alone. How are gear ratios going to impact my fueling?

Anyway, am I way off base here on AFR/VE tuning theory?

 

I'd agree with your approach as well. Get VE dialed in as close as possible as the baseline requirement. Heatwave has unique approach for areas where you cannot collect VE information or don't have access to a dyno. I think with that though, you need to have some level of confidence that spark is relatively close to what it needs to be. If you just keep adding fuel until knock goes away, you could end up with very rich running conditions in those cells.

 

My approach to adding (or deleting) VE is based on a starting map that is running well and designed for that bike. Whether it came with the tuning software or was a custom tune developed on dyno.

I move VEs for 1 of 2 reasons that may be somewhat unique to my situation. I have a higher performance engine than most that was tuned on a dyno and has a completely open loop map.

My purpose in doing any additional tuning with the PV was to develop maps for different purposes and situations. The first additional map I wanted saved on the PV was an "Economy" map. While my open loop performance map runs outstanding, it only gets around 30-31mpg. 30-31 is OK from my perspective for short daytime rides but getting only 180 range from a 6 gal tank doesn't it cut it for the longer trips I take.

So I took my performance map and moved the Lambda to .980 from 0-60 KPa and from 750 to 3000 rpms. This puts this section of the map into closed loop which will allow me to adjust my performance map VEs to the new Lambda (leaner). By letting the tuner make the adjustments I ensure a smoother throttle response than just lowering the VEs independently. I only made the VE changes in the range of 1750-3000. I ignored the recommend changes below 1750 since they will have little impact on my overall fuel economy. These lower cells provide for parking lot maneurability, start up and general acceleration from a stop but otherwise have no impact on fuel mileage.

I also made no changes to the 10KPa column even between 1750 & 3000 since this column is primarily for deceleration and adjusting it can result in decel pop. Since I didn't have any to start with I didn't want to screw with this column.

So essentially, I have now have a map with lower VEs from 20-60KPa and from 1750-3000rpms. Since this is the primary cruise range I figured I would get better fuel economy from this map. Sure enough, my fuel economy jumped from 30-31mpg with the performance map to 40-41mpg. My tank range with the performance map is 180miles and my new Economy map gets close to 250miles. How cool is that?

Performance is only slightly less with the Economy map and only in that small range of the map.

The other adjustment I've made starting with my performance map was based on my tuner's recommendation. He told me that my final map has a VERY conservative spark table for the build and flow of the heads. He suggested I might find even more power with a little experimentation. Since I had the PV I figured I would try.

His suggestion goes as follows:

With my current dyno tuned map, raise the displacement of the engine by 2 cubic inches. My starting map was already at 112.5 so I moved it to 114.5ci.

Step 2 was to advance the spark in both cylinders across the entire map by 3 degrees EXCEPT the 100KPa column and the upper left corner (750-1500rpm and 0-50KPa). Essentially the spark advance should remain unchanged in the idle and start area and should not be raised above 30 in the 100KPa column. Remember to do both cylinders.

Step 3, take it for a ride with the knock sensor on and see if there's any knock and if the performance is stronger.

I can definitely tell you that the performance was without question even stronger than his original dyno-tuner map. Much more agressive. And I had very little additional knock from the sensor and nothing that could be heard.. I raised the VE in those cells that showed knock and most of it went away.


The tuner suggested I try advancing another 3 degrees with the same caveats above until I saw knock in the table or heard knock and then dial back 3 degrees.

• Now I have my open loop base map for performance from my dyno tune.
• A Closed Loop map with much better fuel economy (This map also has spark advanced by 3 degrees over the base map)
• And an even higher performance map with 6 degrees of advanced spark over the base map. This map is also Open loop and gets about the same fuel economy as the Base map.

All 3 of these maps have very little knock as recorded by the sensor and nothing that can be heard (at least not in cooler temps). I keep the Knock sensor ON for the Closed Loop map and turn it OFF in the Open loop maps. Turning the knock sensor OFF has a pretty significant impact on the performance of the bike, so I turn it off in "Performance" mode.

Sorry for the long post but for those looking to experiment, I figured my experience might be helpful. I really find the PV to be an outstanding tool for getting the most performance and smoothest running engine possible. Since I can accomplishment most of this improvement while riding, I figure its far better than lost miles on a dyno. I couldn't be happier with the PV although I hope more improvements are coming (like being able to turn the knock sensor OFF/ON for a particular map directly from the PV.)

 

I am wanting to play with the Log Tuner ....referring to WinPVUserguide 06 ..am I supposed to reduce the timing values like 16.5 to 11.5 (4-6 degrees) in every single field in both cylinders?...is there an easier method than manually going thru every single field?....thanks