Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Let me give that another try... I just had this 
"great response" all typed out and there was a technical error with the forum...
Yes that is exactly what you should do. That is assuming you are tuning with stock narrow band sensors. (When I tune with the wide band sensors, I set the AFR table to 13.0 across the board.) I would not be concerned with the upper KPAs or higher RPMs but all the lower ranges should be tuned. The attached file "tuning AFR NB.JPG" shows what a normal AFR table set for narrow band tuning would look like. Setting the VE values correctly for as many cells as possible is the foundation for building a good tune. Even if you change to another AFR value later, setting the cell to 14.6 and getting the VEs spot on is essential.
Glad to show you what my AFR Tables look like. For Open loop, "AFR Open Loop.JPG" shows what I am currently running. When I run Closed loop, I would use one like AFR Closed Loop.JPG" attached. ***One word of caution - well tuned maps are made up of multiple tables that work well together. Just copying this AFR table into a map will not solve all problems. This works well for my configuration and all other tables and is a good example but not the "fix-all" for everything. I think you know that but wanted to say it in case someone else happens across this post. ***
"great response" all typed out and there was a technical error with the forum...Question,
Since I started monitoring with the PV. I notice it is quite easy to hit the higher "KPa" collums in the VE table at lower RPMs while cruising sometimes.
Would it be a good idea to set the AFR to 14.6 across the board and do a good tuning run to try and tune the cells that are normally in the open loop range?
Then once the new VE values are calculated, change the cells back to whatever AFR they were at or whatever AFR you choose to run?
Or is this how it should have been done in the first place?
Since I started monitoring with the PV. I notice it is quite easy to hit the higher "KPa" collums in the VE table at lower RPMs while cruising sometimes.
Would it be a good idea to set the AFR to 14.6 across the board and do a good tuning run to try and tune the cells that are normally in the open loop range?
Then once the new VE values are calculated, change the cells back to whatever AFR they were at or whatever AFR you choose to run?
Or is this how it should have been done in the first place?
Also, would you mind showing me your AFR table? Would be nice to see what someone with knowledge and experience is running for AFR.
Most maps seem to come with the same AFR set across all the cells in the closed loop area. I have been tinkering with trying to blend them out towards the higher rpm and KPa cells so it's not like an "on/off" switch from say , 14.2 to 12.7 just going from one cell to the next.
Most maps seem to come with the same AFR set across all the cells in the closed loop area. I have been tinkering with trying to blend them out towards the higher rpm and KPa cells so it's not like an "on/off" switch from say , 14.2 to 12.7 just going from one cell to the next.
Last edited by JustDennis; May 30, 2012 at 10:30 AM. Reason: updated attachments
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 354
Likes: 1
From: Los Angeles
[QUOTE=JustDennis;9867791]You definitely need to cover a larger area of the map. Look at the notes at the end of the PV Tuning Basics document I put together for some suggestions on how to ride during tuning. You can access it by clicking the link in my signature.
I would extend closed loop to at least 3750 RPM to do tuning. The timing should be fine in that area. Actually, I will just post the tuning suggestions here to make it easier. The rest of the doc is worth reading though.
Thanks JustDennis. I did use your instructions which saved me a lot of headaches, but I didnt pay a lot of attention to the tunning suggestions. I pretty much punched in the 319245 code and went dataloging. One thing I didnt do was disabel PE AE DE. I wasnt sure if it was necassary. Will this help me hit more cells? Looks like I am going to have to dig in to it a bit more...
I would extend closed loop to at least 3750 RPM to do tuning. The timing should be fine in that area. Actually, I will just post the tuning suggestions here to make it easier. The rest of the doc is worth reading though.
Thanks JustDennis. I did use your instructions which saved me a lot of headaches, but I didnt pay a lot of attention to the tunning suggestions. I pretty much punched in the 319245 code and went dataloging. One thing I didnt do was disabel PE AE DE. I wasnt sure if it was necassary. Will this help me hit more cells? Looks like I am going to have to dig in to it a bit more...
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Thanks JustDennis. I did use your instructions which saved me a lot of headaches, but I didnt pay a lot of attention to the tunning suggestions. I pretty much punched in the 319245 code and went dataloging. One thing I didnt do was disabel PE AE DE. I wasnt sure if it was necassary. Will this help me hit more cells? Looks like I am going to have to dig in to it a bit more...
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 887
Likes: 1
From: Spring, Texas
Let me give that another try... I just had this "great response" all typed out and there was a technical error with the forum...
Yes that is exactly what you should do. That is assuming you are tuning with stock narrow band sensors. (When I tune with the wide band sensors, I set the AFR table to 13.0 across the board.) I would not be concerned with the upper KPAs or higher RPMs but all the lower ranges should be tuned. The attached file "tuning AFR NB.JPG" shows what a normal AFR table set for narrow band tuning would look like. Setting the VE values correctly for as many cells as possible is the foundation for building a good tune. Even if you change to another AFR value later, setting the cell to 14.6 and getting the VEs spot on is essential.
Glad to show you what my AFR Tables look like. For Open loop, "AFR Open Loop.JPG" shows what I am currently running. When I run Closed loop, I would use one like AFR Closed Loop.JPG" attached. ***One word of caution - well tuned maps are made up of multiple tables that work well together. Just copying this AFR table into a map will not solve all problems. This works well for my configuration and all other tables and is a good example but not the "fix-all" for everything. I think you know that but wanted to say it in case someone else happens across this post. ***
"great response" all typed out and there was a technical error with the forum...Yes that is exactly what you should do. That is assuming you are tuning with stock narrow band sensors. (When I tune with the wide band sensors, I set the AFR table to 13.0 across the board.) I would not be concerned with the upper KPAs or higher RPMs but all the lower ranges should be tuned. The attached file "tuning AFR NB.JPG" shows what a normal AFR table set for narrow band tuning would look like. Setting the VE values correctly for as many cells as possible is the foundation for building a good tune. Even if you change to another AFR value later, setting the cell to 14.6 and getting the VEs spot on is essential.
Glad to show you what my AFR Tables look like. For Open loop, "AFR Open Loop.JPG" shows what I am currently running. When I run Closed loop, I would use one like AFR Closed Loop.JPG" attached. ***One word of caution - well tuned maps are made up of multiple tables that work well together. Just copying this AFR table into a map will not solve all problems. This works well for my configuration and all other tables and is a good example but not the "fix-all" for everything. I think you know that but wanted to say it in case someone else happens across this post. ***
Here is a pic of what I was doing right before my ABS failed. Bike is in the shop and have not had a chance to mess with PV since this pic.
But you can see where I am at anyway. ( the 13.5 AFR in the 20 and 30 KPa columns was my attempt at curing my decel popping ) . Only popping left is 3rd gear decel at 1800 rpm, working on it!
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I just did a test of AutoTune (narrow band). I also collected a log file to run through Log Tuner. Unfortunately, the .pvv file that PV generated was not the same as what Log Tuner produced. I've sent those off to DJ for review and comment. I would have expected nearly identical results - it's beta.
BTW, for those doing beta testing, FW 1094 is now available.
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
In the process of dialing in my fuel used. One thing I've noticed this last tank of gas is that my miles travelled are way off. Before I was always within 1/10 using trip A on Speedo compared to trip A PV. But this time, the PV was 1.4 miles lower. What would cause this? Thanks for any insight.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
How are you keeping current on updates? Getting a notice of some sort?
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
About a month or two ago I mislabeled my normal (leaner) tune (14.5 at cruise) and had to run 13.0 across-the-board on a long ride in about 80° weather. On that ride I didn't notice any change in power (part-throttle response), ET, or OT that what I would normally see--but gas mileage was 6mpg lower. The next day I took another long ride in weather that was 10° warmer and noticed only that mileage had changed, even though ET and OT were very slightly higher because of the warmer ambient temps. I have a richer tune on the PV for emergencies but haven't used it yet, and run 14.5 at cruise in open-loop. I rarely see EITMS kick in, which is set for 290° ET, and while moving I'm seeing 225-235° in current 90°+ weather.
Keep in mind that I'm running 14.5 only up to 85KPA and 4500 rpm and tapering down to 13.0 at 100 KPA:
85 KPA = 14.0
90 KPA = 13.5
100 KPA = 13.0
So, performance above the cruise range is about as good as I could expect. Adding more fuel to the cruise range shouldn't help WOT at all and could only impact part-throttle response, but I can't feel it if there is any improvement.
I'm certainly not disputing your results, but mine are different for whatever reason. It'd be interesting to know why. Anyone else have any tests results to share?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Likes: 288
The fairing-mounted odometer will probably be fast by about half that of the speedometer at its original calibration, or at least is on my bike. The speedo was originally 4% fast and odometer 1˝-2% compared to my GPS. Now the speedo is correct and the odometer remains unchanged, so I'm figuring my distance traveled parameter on that. Right now it looks like the beta FW calibration is a bit low, so I will probably up it a bit next fill-up. The Fuel Used parameter is still high even though I set it to 1.0 from 1.12, so I'll have to engage in more calibration over the next few tankfuls.
TedMan
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 472
Likes: 2
From: Hutchinson, Ks.
Actually, closed loop AFR of 14.6 is not the best for performance. 14.6 is the best for clean burning of fuel. Most folks say that somewhere between 13.0 and 14.2 is best for performance. Not looking to start an open loop debate versus closed-loop, there are other threads for that but I will say there is much to be gained in open loop. Look at whatever map you are using, when you hit the higher RPMs or MAP areas, your bike goes into open loop. Why? That is when you need performance. Closed loop is set in the normal cruise range for clean (EPA) burning fuel.
I use an open loop map with AFR set between 13.8 and 14.2 in the cruise range. It gives me the most power, cooler running engine (about 15 degrees) and BETTER gas mileage. All I am saying is give it a try, you have the tools to do it! Ain't the PV great
When you have your bike tuned on a dyno, they set the VEs, adjust other settings and then adjust the AFR to get best performance. We can do that too.
I use an open loop map with AFR set between 13.8 and 14.2 in the cruise range. It gives me the most power, cooler running engine (about 15 degrees) and BETTER gas mileage. All I am saying is give it a try, you have the tools to do it! Ain't the PV great
When you have your bike tuned on a dyno, they set the VEs, adjust other settings and then adjust the AFR to get best performance. We can do that too.
And if the richer mix dosent do anything for temps or performance, it at least gave me the motivation to get all my ve's right, and im not out anything. Ive already done several tuning runs and got my 14.6 ve's incredibly close. Youre advice is greatly appreciated.