The CLB table is present only in AFR calibrations and allows you to make small adjustments to the AFR, but it only works in the areas marked for closed-loop mode (14.6 AFR). Going from 450 to 700 isn't as big a jump as you might think, as it means 14.68 vs. about 14.63. Here's the usable range available for NB O2 sensors:

Lambda --- AFR ----- mV
-----------------------------
0.980 ---- 14.39 ---- 786
0.991 ---- 14.55 ---- 758
0.992 ---- 14.56 ---- 756
0.993 ---- 14.58 ---- 750
0.994 ---- 14.59 ---- 746
0.995 ---- 14.61 ---- 741
0.996 ---- 14.62 ---- 730
0.997 ---- 14.64 ---- 645
0.998 ---- 14.65 ---- 580
0.999 ---- 14.67 ---- 515
1.000 ---- 14.68 ---- 450
1.001 ---- 14.69 ---- 385
1.002 ---- 14.71 ---- 320

I think FM sets CLB for 700 because it is about the highest you can go without getting outside the comfort zone of the sensors. See the chart below that shows the relationship. The problem is that having a range of only 0-1v doesn't allow a wide operating range. WB sensors, OTOH, use 0-5v and can read a very wide range, wider than would be usable in a streetable gas engine. Unfortunately you can't use these with the ECM as active closed-loop devices, but can tune with them as passive devices that read only in open-loop. IOW it doesn't communicate with the ECM but the data they produce can be used to create a tune that will run in open-loop. That's the way the PV "Pro" tuning process works.

If you don't like running at or very near stoich in closed-loop you can always set AFRs to 14.5 or below and run in open-loop. I personally have no problem running at 14.6, but if you must run at 14.2 or 13.8 you really have no choice at this time. You can set AFR to ≤14.5 or lower (Lambda to ≤.981) and the ECM will run in open-loop.

The technology exists to convert the Delphi EFI to WB closed-loop, which is a feature that may come for the PV in time (optional at extra cost), but I wouldn't start holding my breath just yet. You can also tune in open-loop using WB sensors and run in open-loop, which is what I'm doing now. It works well, as even in open-loop AFR's stay where you specify with pretty good accuracy. I hope I didn't go too far off on a tangent here, but hopefully this info will help.

 

I just did a test of AutoTune (narrow band). I also collected a log file to run through Log Tuner. Unfortunately, the .pvv file that PV generated was not the same as what Log Tuner produced. I've sent those off to DJ for review and comment. I would have expected nearly identical results - it's beta.

 

So I have done 5 Data log/tunning sessions and here are the Deltas between the original FM map and the latest tune. Things I notice are I am hitting a pretty small portion of the map during data logs, allthough those low rpm, high throtle positions I dont know if I even want to try and hit those, and the tunning seems to have mostly leaned out the front cyl a bit and richened the rear quite a bit. Just trying to figure out if I am in the ballpark and going in the right direction and how far I want to go with the tunning. My last tune the deltas were all 3% or less. Other thing I noticed is on my original tune, [factory stage one download] closed loop goes to 4500 rpm and my FM map goes in to open loop after 3k. Should I extend closed loop to maybe 4k and do some more tunning, do I have to pull timing out if I do that? Thanks in advance...

 

In the process of dialing in my fuel used. One thing I've noticed this last tank of gas is that my miles travelled are way off. Before I was always within 1/10 using trip A on Speedo compared to trip A PV. But this time, the PV was 1.4 miles lower. What would cause this? Thanks for any insight.

TedMan

 

Thanx for the explanation man. I have not tried running in open loop. From what I have taken from what people have said in this forum and others there is really nothing to be gained from going richer than 14.6-1. Except for more stops at the gas station. Guess id have to try if i want to find out I guess.
Why are you tuning in open loop with wb sensors? I was under the assumption that tuning was best done in closed loop. I have alot to learn and I appreciate the help from everyone on this forum. Where is everybody learning all this stuff from? Is there a fi tuning for dummies book out there I can check out lol?

 

Actually, closed loop AFR of 14.6 is not the best for performance. 14.6 is the best for clean burning of fuel. Most folks say that somewhere between 13.0 and 14.2 is best for performance. Not looking to start an open loop debate versus closed-loop, there are other threads for that but I will say there is much to be gained in open loop. Look at whatever map you are using, when you hit the higher RPMs or MAP areas, your bike goes into open loop. Why? That is when you need performance. Closed loop is set in the normal cruise range for clean (EPA) burning fuel.

I use an open loop map with AFR set between 13.8 and 14.2 in the cruise range. It gives me the most power, cooler running engine (about 15 degrees) and BETTER gas mileage. All I am saying is give it a try, you have the tools to do it! Ain't the PV great

When you have your bike tuned on a dyno, they set the VEs, adjust other settings and then adjust the AFR to get best performance. We can do that too.

 

Hello JD,

Your Tuning Basics was the document that helped me !
Are you thinking of a Version 2 ?
Would be a must to be read, and a pleasure !

I'd like to improve my tune and adjust settings to get 3 depending on solo/duo, perf or distance.
To do a clean job I should read back the whole threads, can't...
A step by step guide would be a great help.

Since the beginning of PV there were improvements in the software I did'nt explore, your understanding would be appreciated

Merci d'avance

 

You definitely need to cover a larger area of the map. Look at the notes at the end of the PV Tuning Basics document I put together for some suggestions on how to ride during tuning. You can access it by clicking the link in my signature.

I would extend closed loop to at least 3750 RPM to do tuning. The timing should be fine in that area. Actually, I will just post the tuning suggestions here to make it easier. The rest of the doc is worth reading though.


Suggestions for tuning runs

Based on some forum questions, I thought about the “routine” I have been using during the tuning runs to hit more cells in the VE tables. Some of those areas are difficult to reach during normal riding. Hitting more areas improves your tune because as the ECM is calculating fuel delivery and the other factors involved, it takes into account not only the “cell” it is in as determined by Throttle Position/ MAP and RPM but the surrounding cells. To say it another way, I believe the grid version we see is just a representation of the data in tables and calculations going on in the ECM. Surrounding cells, before, after, above and below are taken into account when calculating fuel, spark, etc. Suffice it to say, the more areas of the VE and spark tables you get adjusted to match your bike’s configuration – The Better.

Here are some of the things I try to do during tuning runs. I have picked these up from reading tuning descriptions, other forums and tuning with some of the other products out there.

• Limit the tuning rides to 20 – 30 minutes. Try not to ride too aggressively. By setting up the calibration for tuning you have disabled some of the features that normally are active to protect your bike (AE, DE, PE, Etc.) You can cover a lot of areas in that time. Having some hills and a freeway nearby helps as well. Of course as a disclaimer, all of this should be done on a closed course.

• Find some hills and take them using slow throttle roll-on. Do this at a slow MPH in 3rd and 4th gear. This helps to hit lower RPM higher throttle position cells.

• During the run, be sure to include some decel datalogging. Instead of just releasing the throttle, slowly decrease Throttle position from lower and higher RPMS. This helps cover the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) areas of the map lower that 30 kpa. Our bikes normally idle in the low to mid 30 kpa. During decel you will hit the 20kpa cells.

• Using slow throttle roll-on take 1st and 2nd gears into the upper RPMs. You can also do the same in 3rd gear but be careful of the speed. 3rd gear in upper RPMs can be quite fast.

• Be sure to ride some off highway speeds around 35-45 mph in 2nd, 5th and 6th gears.

• Ride some highway speeds in 3rd, 4th, 5th and maybe 6th gear. Be sure do some controlled acceleration like normal passing.

• Another thing to do is to start off and get moving in first gear, then shift to 3rd and gradually roll on the throttle. Let the bike slow down to around 1500 RPM and gradually accelerate in 3rd, 4th and 5th. Don’t lug the engine but this will help collect data in higher map cells at lower rpm.

• As you begin to finalize the tune after hitting as many areas as possible, be sure to ride like you normally do. I have found that it is best to make sure your normal riding area is as accurate as possible. Some people spend a lot of time at say, Wide Open Throttle or higher RPMS – but we rarely ride our bikes there and when we do it is only for a short period of time. One the last couple of runs, concentrate on normal riding to get those cells correct.

 

I am thinking of a version 2.0 or at least update it but wanted feedback to make it the best I can. I will probably add information about the new features DJ is putting in the Beta versions, if they get the bugs worked out. Thanks for the input.

 

Question,
Since I started monitoring with the PV. I notice it is quite easy to hit the higher "KPa" collums in the VE table at lower RPMs while cruising sometimes.
Would it be a good idea to set the AFR to 14.6 across the board and do a good tuning run to try and tune the cells that are normally in the open loop range?
Then once the new VE values are calculated, change the cells back to whatever AFR they were at or whatever AFR you choose to run?

Or is this how it should have been done in the first place?
Also, would you mind showing me your AFR table? Would be nice to see what someone with knowledge and experience is running for AFR.
Most maps seem to come with the same AFR set across all the cells in the closed loop area. I have been tinkering with trying to blend them out towards the higher rpm and KPa cells so it's not like an "on/off" switch from say , 14.2 to 12.7 just going from one cell to the next.