Power Vision Information Thread
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 11
From: The Whale's Vagina
Decel Popping Cured by Spark Changes
The Dynojet guys changed my map again to address the popping on decel and between shifts. AT Basic just wasn't getting it out.
The major changes were to the spark tables. I'm trying to learn more about tuning, so can someone explain why/how increasing the spark advance eliminated my popping?
Also, what effect will this have on power or MPG?
Here is the original spark table:
Here is the DJ-corrected table:
And the delta:
The delta to both front and rear cylinders were identical, so I didn't post both.
Thanks.
The major changes were to the spark tables. I'm trying to learn more about tuning, so can someone explain why/how increasing the spark advance eliminated my popping?
Also, what effect will this have on power or MPG?
Here is the original spark table:
Here is the DJ-corrected table:
And the delta:
The delta to both front and rear cylinders were identical, so I didn't post both.
Thanks.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,454
Likes: 58
From: Graysville, AL
I'm getting a 0% average and 5% max change on my last auto tune run. I'm gonna do one more good auto tune and that will be it. The riding environment and hitting the most cells is what I am focusing on now.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
The Dynojet guys changed my map again to address the popping on decel and between shifts. AT Basic just wasn't getting it out.
The major changes were to the spark tables. I'm trying to learn more about tuning, so can someone explain why/how increasing the spark advance eliminated my popping?
Also, what effect will this have on power or MPG?
Here is the original spark table:
Here is the DJ-corrected table:
And the delta:
The delta to both front and rear cylinders were identical, so I didn't post both.
Thanks.
The major changes were to the spark tables. I'm trying to learn more about tuning, so can someone explain why/how increasing the spark advance eliminated my popping?
Also, what effect will this have on power or MPG?
Here is the original spark table:
Here is the DJ-corrected table:
And the delta:
The delta to both front and rear cylinders were identical, so I didn't post both.
Thanks.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Sorry for the dumb question but I will ask it:
What is better an Open Loop or Closed Loop Tune? I asked Dynojet to review my stock tune and they built a custom tune for me. This custom tune was e-mailed back and I believe it is a closed loop tune as there are several options referencing "closed" that I don't see in my other maps.
I am running the stock O2 sensors! I haven't had a chance to ride but I will flash this today and hopefully ride this afternoon.
What is better an Open Loop or Closed Loop Tune? I asked Dynojet to review my stock tune and they built a custom tune for me. This custom tune was e-mailed back and I believe it is a closed loop tune as there are several options referencing "closed" that I don't see in my other maps.
I am running the stock O2 sensors! I haven't had a chance to ride but I will flash this today and hopefully ride this afternoon.
I'm not a big fan of closed loop. If the bike is tuned right I prefer to run Open Loop. Some will run a combination of closed loop and open loop. A little richer down low (OL) to help cool it off and then closed loop at cruising RPM's for better MPG's. Regardless of which you choose the bike will definitely run better after a tune than how they are sent out from the MoCo.
It's confusing at first but after a little reading you'll start to make or tails out of it.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
I am on Auto Tune number 10 on mine. The VE tables are as close as they will ever get with 5% or less change and the bike runs great! The AFR tables were never changed and I am still running closed loop in most to the table per FM starter map. My mpg isn't good at all with it running around 32 mpg with the speed between 50-70 mph on a 30 mile run for the most part with very little stop and go.
Jamie had me change the CLB table to 700 across the board during my last two AT tunes. He didn't say if I should change those back after I finished or not so I guess my question is, should the CLB table be reset back to it's original numbers that came with my FM starter map and would that change my mpg? Any clue as to how much affect that would have to my mpg? I read on another forum that you have to re-tune anytime you change the CLB tables too, is that true? Before the CLB change and the last two tunes I was getting about 36-37 mpg which I can live with and I have a hard time believing the small changes in the VE tables on those two tunes would make much of a difference in my mpg. That is why I ask about eh CLB table change.
Also my cubic inch setting was raised to 108.3 during those last two tunes. Engine temps are good too with it not exceeding 254* at any time during the last two rides after I finished doing the Auto Tunes.
Jamie had me change the CLB table to 700 across the board during my last two AT tunes. He didn't say if I should change those back after I finished or not so I guess my question is, should the CLB table be reset back to it's original numbers that came with my FM starter map and would that change my mpg? Any clue as to how much affect that would have to my mpg? I read on another forum that you have to re-tune anytime you change the CLB tables too, is that true? Before the CLB change and the last two tunes I was getting about 36-37 mpg which I can live with and I have a hard time believing the small changes in the VE tables on those two tunes would make much of a difference in my mpg. That is why I ask about eh CLB table change.
Also my cubic inch setting was raised to 108.3 during those last two tunes. Engine temps are good too with it not exceeding 254* at any time during the last two rides after I finished doing the Auto Tunes.
In order to get a good tune on the street you have to start with a good running engine to start with. Old 02 sensors won't cut it. Exhaust or intake leaks will skew your VE's too. An open, free-flowing exhaust, will make it harder to tune in the lower RPM's. Just make sure your bike is prepared to be tuned.
A 700 CLB shouldn't affect your mileage like what you're describing. It barely lowers your AFR. There are tables out there to show what the CLB settings will do to your AFR ratio. Somewhere from 14.68 down to maybe 14.63. But nowhere near anything that should be resulting in 32 MPG. You should be closer to 40, probably even higher in full closed loop, with your set up.
Run it for a while and see if it improves. Or make a few runs and and use log tuner to view what's going on. You don't have to keep the tune. Just use log tuner to show you exactly what's happening. Just make a 45 minute run and data log the 10 or 11 areas that need to be logged. I don't have my checklist in front of me but the log tuner instructions are pretty easy to follow and tell how to set it up to log the data you need.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Where are you seeing it selling for $430? Is that an outright purchase or some special offer?
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 716
Likes: 10
From: Shreveport,La
Thanks for the reply. I took my last log file and tune and did a Log Tuner tune with it today. I then imported the new value files into my last tune and gave it a new name when I saved it. Then using map compare I did a delta of both maps. There was no more than a +/- 5% change in any cell for my VE's in either cylinder so I assume my VE's are pretty much correct at this point.
I checked the logs using excel and found a couple of minor knock events on the FT cyl, but nothing worth messing with. I plan to start working on the timing next. I plan to add a couple of degrees across the map to see where it pulls it out at. I am thinking I can do that and export learned timing a few times with the adding back 2* each time to see where I end up with timing.
My mpg has never been great the way I ride. Before the 103 and PV upgrade I got 38 - 39 most of the time. I did import back my old CLB table as well into the new map today, but it will be some time next week before I can see what that did.
It could just be me getting that grin factor on with the new build
causing my mpg to be what it is. Time will probably tell. Again I am happy with how it runs and I don't really see any evidence of a rich condition in my exhaust. I don't know if I will even take it out of closed loop as the engine temp has been around 250 max at it's highest since the upgrade according the the PV gauge for ET.
I checked the logs using excel and found a couple of minor knock events on the FT cyl, but nothing worth messing with. I plan to start working on the timing next. I plan to add a couple of degrees across the map to see where it pulls it out at. I am thinking I can do that and export learned timing a few times with the adding back 2* each time to see where I end up with timing.
My mpg has never been great the way I ride. Before the 103 and PV upgrade I got 38 - 39 most of the time. I did import back my old CLB table as well into the new map today, but it will be some time next week before I can see what that did.
It could just be me getting that grin factor on with the new build
causing my mpg to be what it is. Time will probably tell. Again I am happy with how it runs and I don't really see any evidence of a rich condition in my exhaust. I don't know if I will even take it out of closed loop as the engine temp has been around 250 max at it's highest since the upgrade according the the PV gauge for ET.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
You can do timing.
Its not like your just stuck with auto tune.
Its not like your just stuck with auto tune.
You probably won't see many tuners either recommending or getting trained on the PV. The PV to a large extent undermines their business and the use of their dyno so don't expect too much help from most dyno tuning shops. Kudos to the dynotuners that do lend a hand using the PV.
Jamie provides customized tuning maps to get most bikes started. Then the PV can tune from that starting spot but if there is a need to tweak the map in areas that can't be tuned by the Auto-tune (such as at idle, very cold temp startups and timing) then he can assist in tweaking the map through email and there's no charge if you bought your unit through FM. Jamie's been a big help on a couple of spots that the auto-tune didn't cover such as starting my bike in 16 degree temps.
Jamie provides customized tuning maps to get most bikes started. Then the PV can tune from that starting spot but if there is a need to tweak the map in areas that can't be tuned by the Auto-tune (such as at idle, very cold temp startups and timing) then he can assist in tweaking the map through email and there's no charge if you bought your unit through FM. Jamie's been a big help on a couple of spots that the auto-tune didn't cover such as starting my bike in 16 degree temps.