Agreed, but most guys aren't as familiar with adjustments to the spark tables. In most cases you are best to load a well designed map for your bike's engine configuration (such as FM's) which should have spark tables suitable for your bike's engine.

You can definitely increase the performance by elevating spark advance but you can also negatively impact the engine's performance or worse, cause harm, if you are not familiar with adjusting advance.

 

JUst my .02 worth here....

check out this link and look at other resources to understand why we have O2 sensors in the first place... yes its all about emmisions but there is more to it than that.. http://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/...emissions.html

We are all using on our bikes a process called speed density conversion for our fuel strategy (that's how our ECM setups are) aka no mass air flow sensors...

Most important thing you can do is get the VE tables right on the money!!!! The VE tables do not directly control the AFR that is done in the stoich/Lambda settings and the bias tables. If your VE is wrong it will cause the ECM to be inaccurate when it compares values from the VE tables and AFR tables etc etc because the VE table was incorrect.

example: FRED (friggen ridiculous electronic device) is requested to apply a 13.8 afr per your stoich/afr/lambda table he will look at map, tps, air temp, engine temp etc etc AND the VE table and then set the injector pulse width according to those tables. You have control over just a few of those charts FRED is looking at. If you told FRED that in this situation the engine will be flowing lets say 112 in that cell of the VE table and its only flowing 92 FRED has no way of knowing you gave him the wrong information and will set the Pulse width using what he has been told and now your running richer than YOU chose in the stoich/afr/lambda table.

What I am trying to say is FRED is stupid and only does what he reads off charts that are pre installed in his "brain" the sensor charts we have no way or need to change or mod you just have to get the VE table correct to give FRED the ability to do what you ask him to do in the stoich/afr/lambda table and the bias tables.

From that point if the VE tables are accurate you can richen up, lean out, run open loop, closed loop, wide band, narrow band, or whatever you choose.

In the fine tuning on the AFR if running closed loop, ignition timing can cause issues in the case of pre ignition or post ignition causeing readings to the O2 sensors to be false rich or lean (there true readings just not caused by AFR its due to ignition related pre ignition (overheated combustion process which causes a different chemical reaction in combustion) or late spark timing not allowing a full burn process (this can actually cause a false lean reading to the O2 sensors due to not using all the oxygen available). A ignition misfire such as a bad spark plug or plug wire, weak coil, etc... will show as a lean condition to the O2 sensor either wide band or narrow band.

My point is closed loop is your friend and a tool to use to your advantage, you can still get the richer mixtures for the WOT bursts and idle engine cooling or all around max torque and still have the economy you desire in the cruising areas...

The PV gives you all the tools to do this but you need get the VE tables correct or the rest is not going to be accurate.

SORRY for the long read...

Doug

 

Would you say the 5% or less change would be on the money?

 

After 11 tunes using both AT and PV log tuner I have not had any more than a + or - 5 change in the VE tables. You just can't get it any closer as riding conditions change. I was even told to ignore the one odd 6% cell change in some of my earlier tunes. I might also add that the +/- 5% numbers have been that way since my 8th tune. Partly because when I did my first 7 tunes I was still restricted on how I ran the engine because it was a new 103 build. After the initial 500 mile break-in, it dialed in quick.

I am getting ready and trying to learn about the Spark tables now for the next phase in my tune. I made changes back when I had the PC III and it made a fare difference in my mpg and seat of the pants power. This an altogether different tuning process so I have to do some studying.......LOL. before I go to trying to change them spark tables.

 

You're not going to get max torque and cooling in closed loop. This whole closed loop business is EPA crap. They think because a water cooled engine can run 14.7 so can an air cooled engine. It just isn't so. Closed loop has been around the car industry for decades. It is proven and has it's place, in water cooled engines. Go back and read some posts pre-2006 from the tuner types of members in different forums. If they're selling a closed loop product then it's the best thing since sliced bread. But, pre 2006 they were singing a different tune. Not knocking anyone, but it's all marketing hype. Even the pre-2006 Delphi tuners didn't tune at 14.7. Before 02 sensors came around they all claimed max tq/hp AFR's were way lower than 14.7, and some tuners still publicly say this. BUT now that an 02 sensor is involved all of a sudden 14.7 is the best gig in town. It's just something someone put in the KoolAid hoping everyone drinks enough to be sold. If someone finds a way to keep an air cooled engine at a specific temperature, without fluctuating, then CL can work. That's just one part of the equation though. Now find the AFR that it makes peak hp and tq at and convince the tree huggers that the MoCo should be given a waiver to build bikes that pollute the environment. It just isn't going to happen. Closed loop is pure EPA compliant and 100% disregards what's best for an air cooled engine. I hardly see how CL can be anyone's friend.

 

I have been emailing them with questions and they have been more then willing to try and help as well as get back to me quick. People like this get my business as I am from the old school and service means more to me then price.
Thanks
Jeff

 

Ebay from a person that has a shop so it has a warranty.

 

Thanks and would like to hear others thoughts.
Thanks
Jeff

 

It's no more difficult than getting your VE's dialed. There's really no scientific way to attack it though. Without a dyno you'll never know if a certain range is returning the best hp/tq numbers. When dealing with timing on a street tune the most important thing to know is where it pings. And then back it off a couple degrees to build in a safety margin. Other than how it feels there's no way to know if it's making peak numbers. It may ping at 40 degrees in a certain area. So you back it off lets say 3 degrees and now it doesn't ping. But is it making the best numbers? Won't know using a street tuner. But if it isn't pinging and making a bunch of racket at least you know your safe. These TC's will take a bunch more timing than what the MoCo and some canned maps that are sold actually show. Bump it up and go for a ride. See where it pings. Drop it down a degree. Jack up other areas leaving the corrected areas alone. See if they ping. Drop it down 1 degree. After 6 or 7 logs you'll staart to develop a curve the bike likes. After that, pull 3 degrees out of the entire map. One thing to remember with timing is once you see a retard, don't pull out too much. It seems the ECM likes to pull out 2 degrees when it senses a hit, then feeds the timing back in. So, you may be off 1/2 degree too high, it pings and pulls out 2 degrees to be safe. You go back and manually pull out 1 degree and find out it doesn't ping anymore. Basically, the ECM pulls out more than it needs to be safe. I pull out 1 degree and see if it's enough. Move on to another area and make corrections. Once I'm at a point where I'm comfortable that I have it to within 1 degree of pinging I go back and pull 3 degrees across the entire map, excluding idle and the 20% column. The nice thing about the PV is on any given day or ride, you can push one button and data log. You may develop a ping in the summer heat and it's easily spotted on the log and just as easy to cure. If someone does a lot of touring and experiences different grades of gas it's easy enough to build a map with less timing across the board, and reflash, instead of letting it ping for 200 miles. This PV becomes a fun toy to play with once someone learns how to use it and is a little creative.

 

That's a great deal. I'd jump on that as soon as possible. Eat macaroni and cheese for a month if you have to.